- 'An End to the Southern Strategy, But No Post-Racial America' says David Love
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- Just Equally Speaking….
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- Council Committee Passed the Freeze
- Carol Campbell Passes Away
- My first trip to the public library
- Fight digital exclusion
- What if half of Philadelphia didn't have roads?
Boy/Girl Revolutionaries: SEPTA's Gender-marked TransPasses Challenged
Submitted by jennifer on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 8:37pm.
Right now, TransPasses are marked to identify whether the holder is male or female. SEPTA employees then get to exercise their refined gender-identification skills to figure out if the rider holding the pass is the 'right' gender. This hasn't always worked so smoothly.
Now, a transgender rider has filed a complaint with the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations, challenging the "gender marker policy." The rider is being represented by the Equality Advocates (formerly the Gay and Lesbian Center for Human Rights).
Riders who have experienced problems with the gender identification policy are being asked to report their experiences:
In order to ensure that the complaint is not treated as an isolated incident, we want to submit stories from other individuals who have had similar experiences
*If you have been denied the use of a transpass (or have been harassed when using a transpass) because of the gender marker policy, and are willing to come forward, please contact us! * In addition, please distribute this notice to *anyone* you know who may have had problems as a result of SEPTA's gender marker policy.
If you contact us, a law student advocate will take down your name and draft an affidavit based on the information. We will then ask for you to come in to our office to sign and notarize the affidavit. Please note that this does not create an attorney/client relationship, and will not result in a formal complaint being filed on your behalf. If you want to file a claim of your own, please ask us about this, and we can discuss how you can do so
Please contact Katie Eyer at (215) 731-1447, Ext. 12 if you are willing. to share your story! If you receive voicemail, please list your name telephone contact information, a good time to call, and indicate why you are calling.
As a semi-aside, legislation's been introduced in Harrisburg to add sexual orientation and gender identity or expression to PA's current anti-discrimination law.
Credit to Huggy Bear lyrics for the title and Philebrity for the original link, as well as for getting there first with the inevitable "TransPass" joke."
Bookmark/Search this post with:
Eliminate the gender ID
I have always thought that the gender ID was strange. I really don't understand the point of it and this suit shows a good reason for the elimination. This is one of the many ways that Philadelphia can help lead the way in trying to reduce the amount of discrimination in documents issued by government agencies.
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Well, I would like to know
Well, I would like to know how it is leading to discrimination.
The original post didn't say what the complaints were. This very likely could be a bad service issue and not a a problem with the gender tag.
I can easily see it as being a way to cut down on passing off transpasses. I would assume that the most common circumvention would be between spouses. So, by tagging it, it is an easy prevention of wives/husbands sharing one pass.
So, if it doesn't look like the gender matches, the bus driver should ask for ID to verify. Is the complaint that they are being forced to show ID because they do not look like the gender they are marked as?
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
Adam, SEPTA can't even make change
Is it so hard to imagine that there could be issues in the administration of a policy to check TransPass ownership with reference to gender appearance?
I don't understand how "bad service" that consists of challenging riders based on gender identity/appearance is experientially distinct from discrimination for the people affected.
Jennifer
They aren't challenging them
They aren't challenging them on their gender. They are challenging that their perceived gender doesn't match the transpass they are carrying. I am sure that the bus driver has the right to ask for ID of anyone they do not think is supposed to be using the pass. I would assume the gender sticker is an easy way to cut down abuses of the most likely to do it, couples. I still don't see how this is discriminatory. They aren't refusing them ridership, are they?
Also, it isn't that SEPTA can't make change, the system chooses not to. Which is also a completely irrelevant statement to the topic.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
Come on
This is seriously willfully obtuse internet arguing. Or complete lack of empathy, but I want to give the benefit of the doubt and go with the former.
These types of situations faced by trans people are among the reasons why there's a push (right now, here in PA as well as in other states and localities) to expand anti-discrimination law so it covers gender identity (and sexual orientation, etc).
You are saying that "real gender" isn't the issue, but appearance. But it's that slippage between gender (which as Mr. Luigi points out below, is definitely not binary even when we are trying to talk about 'pure' biological gender outside of gender identity) and gender identity and/or appearance that gives to the risk and experience of discrimination under the policy.
I'm not an expert with the history of the experienced problems with the policy, but Kathy talks about them below, and states that there are complaints on record about people being challenged and/or refused service.
But it affects the two classes of people--those whose appearances "match" their designation and those that don't seem to--differently.
That may not be legal discrimination under either constitutional jurisprudence or PA state law, neither of which yet recognize discrimination based on gender identity.
But please explain to me how it is not discrimination if a rider whose appearance doesn't match birth gender has to face questioning, challenges, or inability to ride public transit when people with conventional gender identities and appearances don't?
A policy of dealing with fraud by putting SEPTA employees in a position of having to police gender identity and appearance gives rise to risk of just that sort of discrimination. SEPTA may not be able to afford the solutions developed by other cities under it's current or proposed budget (I don't know). But this is at least another of many reasons why we need a workable budget that doesn't require cost-cutting at the expense of a class of Philadelphians.
Jennifer
Let's take it out of context
Let's take it out of context of the transpass and something more serious ... credit card fraud.
"Joe Schmo" goes to Anne Taylor and wishes to purchase $500 in dresses. Joe hands over the American Express that says Joe Schmo on it. The cashier notices the person handing the card and buying the dresses is dressed like a woman, has breasts, etc.
Is it discrimination for the cashier to ask for ID because the name on the card is male and the person attempting to use it looks female?
If the cashier didn't ask and a ID and later a fraud alert was put on it and the business reviewed security cameras. Would they be justified in repremanding the cashier for neglecting an obvious flag?
Now, as far as refusing service, on what grounds were they refused service? That there is what I am saying is a customer service issue. If they had proper identification, there is no reason they should have been refused service and the driver should be seriously reprimanded. Now, if they were refused service because they didn't have corresponding ID, wouldn't that be the case still if everyone was being random checked? Wouldn't the person have still been refused service?
I am not discounting discrimination. I would just like to know the full story before jumping on the bandwagon.
Finally, what would you recommend as a fraud prevention policy that would achieve similar results? Obviously they can't go by names.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
Think about it this way
Imagining that we lived in a different better world, where anti-discrimination law recognized things like pregnancy discrimination and gender identity discrimination...
When a quality (like sex, race, or in this case gender identity) is protected, government has to work to find ways to make sure its policies or laws don't unfairly impact those groups.
You are saying there's a good reason for the policy. Stopping fraud is a pretty good reason, in the abstract. But a bunch of points have been made on this thread about (1) how the gender marker doesn't really accomplish the goal since it only avoids fraud by half the population, leaving the other half free to try to scam the system and (2) some sort of permanent or semi-permanent card with a photo of the rider should not cause significantly more expense than semi-permanent cards with gender ID stickers.
People are not yet required by law to carry ID in the US (I don't know your feelings on that separate issue) so it shouldn't be within SEPTA's authority to refuse service for lack of ID. Certainly if the policy exists, customer service training could help avoid needless harassment of non-gender-conforming riders. But they are still going to be disproportionately affected by the policy.
Note that your analysis as well as your ID comments don't factor in the situation of a person who is transitioning and has independent issues regarding getting accurate identification papers.
Jennifer
No, it isn't law to carry
No, it isn't law to carry ID, but business does have the right to refuse if you can not prove you are authorized to ue said service. Again, with the credit card situation (which you avoided answering), if the cashier asked for ID and the person said they didn't have it, would they be forced to continue service and processing of the card?
Second, for "minimal expense" no one listed numbers for adding photo IDs on permanent cards. We know there is obviously added expense for new equipment and "minimal" is arbitrary when fares are being raised 30% and service cut by 20%. money doesn't come from no where.
Third, would you be upset if they did it off of name on the card? It would eliminate the gender sticker, but still retain the "profiling" problem of inaccurate name to appearance matching. Again, in the scenario I posed earlier, is the cashier wrong for requesting ID based on name and appearnce?
So far, the only recommendation we have is to implement a new transpass system.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
I understand concern with
I understand concern with expense. But not being an expert on transit policy or funding, all I can go by is references to the fact that other places don't rely on a gender-marked system. On another board, someone told me that NJ used to but it was challenged and the policy was overturned.
The only way I know how to address the credit card analogy is by way of a couple distinctions. We're talking about not just government versus private business, but a common carrier (the entity that, practically speaking, is many Philadephians' only choice for getting around).
More concretely, though you could argue back that the cumulative cost of possible fraud is large (setting aside the pretty relevant point that the M/F stickers really aren't necessarily effective), if you do some sort of cost/benefit analysis of the interactions between SEPTA employees and riders compared to shop workers and credit card users--the possible risk of fraud and thus benefit from imposing on non-gender-conforming people is SO much higher in the credit card context. Any given conflict with a SEPTA employee over gender identity trades humiliation and/or inconvenience for $1.60 or $2. A single fraudulent credit card transaction can easily be many, many multiples of that figure.
Jennifer
So, you are ultimately
So, you are ultimately saying, that gender discrimination is acceptable as long as it is to prevent significant financial loss?
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
hahaha
That's your example.
I wouldn't advocate strict cost-benefit analysis. But, I think that in a private business context where the risk of loss is significant, a policy of requiring ID to do something (use a credit card to make a purchase) makes more sense than it does in the SEPTA context. It's the same logic that is behind requiring ID to get on flights now. There are still problems in how those ID requirements effect trans and other people, and they should be addressed to the greatest extent practicable. Again, Kathy talks about some of this below and there is much discussion of these issues if you choose to google.
In my perfect world, gender identity would be protected to the same extent biological sex is (and that would be slightly protected in a slightly different way than it is now, but that's complicated). What that would mean is no, policies that burdened people based on their gender identity or expression would not be justified unless there is an important government interest behind the policy and the policy achieves that interest by substantially related means. This falls short of the strict standard applied to race discrimination, where the policy has to be the least burdensome way possible of achieving the goal.
But it would result in the SEPTA policy being rejected because the goal of preventing fraud is not closely enough related to the means chosen, since the means (the M/F sticker) only gets rid of up to half the possible fraud.
Jennifer
Poor Pat
Don't know if you're old enough to remember that SNL character - but imagine a lifetime of discrimination when taking a bus because the driver can't figure out whether or not your gender matches your Septa pass. Oh, the injustice. (Of course, on the other hand, maybe those with androgynous names are now scamming the system - imagine the potential abuse in couples where both members have androgynous names: perhaps they're passing their SEPTA cards back and forth with impunity).
Your stretch in your analogy about credit cards is worthy of plastic man, because gender isn't specified on a credit card. And there is a reason why it isn't: It's useless in any practical sense.
This discussion is really pretty funny. Specifying gender on a SEPTA card is an absurdly inefficient way to check the identification of the user. Given the potential that it could lead to differential treatment of transgendered people, there's no valid reason to keep it.
People with androgynous names unite!!! Should Pat (or his/her* parent Frances/Francis), or Bobbi/Bobby, or Dana, or Leslie, or Chris, etc., be treated differentially from Adam because their names are not obviously gender specific? End this abuse now!!
I'd say that excusing the policy on the basis of efficiency in preventing SEPTA pass abuse (do you seriously think husbands and wives sharing SEPTA passes ranks up their among the significant issues regarding transportation in Philly?) falls under the category of "seriously willfully obtuse internet arguing."
* edited to correct an inadvertant assumption that might reflect gender bias
The underlying issue, as I
The underlying issue, as I gather it, is not the SEPTA sticker but gender discrimination. The idea of normalized gender.
The complaint about the gender sticker is that people make asumptions on how someone i supposed to look and therefore they get carded more often. The extension I am proposing is, as with the credit card scenario, you don't have a gender sticker. You just have a name, and not an androgynous name. Let's use a name like Derrick. I highly doubt if you heard the name Derrick you would think female (unless you had Bo in front of it ... there, that bad joke is for you, DEII ;) ).
So, if someone handed a cashier, or a SEPTA bus driver, a card with the first name Derrick on it and the presenter was sporting a dress and 38 DD, is it discrimination to ask for ID?
The reason I am posing the question is,to find out what is discrimination, what isn't and what is acceptable discrimination. (I would like to use the word profiling, but that is tainted now as well.)
Is the problem the sticker or is it using what ever information is around you to formulate if there is something out of the ordinary and a possible fraud. Is it acceptable as long as the information being used is not unreasonble? (I could easily agree if the argument the gender sticker is unreasonable, but it is still ok for the drivers to make gender assumptions based on name on card because the name availability is information supplied within reason and the gender sticker isn't.)
Or is the line that a business can not make any gender assumptions?
The reason it matters is because some posters peak about "slippage". How far are you allowed or willing to slip?
Finally, in regards to the husband/wife/couples abuses, I do not know. It matters what numbers are. What if SEPTA reported that gender stickers save about $5 million a year in fraud? Would you feel that is significant in regards to transportation issues? Again, that is why I am trying to be moderate because all the info isn't supplied. We don't have SEPTA's side and their reasoning.
Second finally. The problem is that for preventing crime, people are taught to look for anomalies in patterns. Unfortunately transgender people are not patterned in the norm in regards to gender and appearance. so they fall into the defined set of what to look out for. That is what makes it difficult and why I think discrimination is the wrong term. I highly doubt SEPTA is actively trying to inhibit transgender people. They just don't match normalized criteria. (And before anyone jumps on me for terminology, I am just using words to try to keep it clinical and in a statistical sense.)
Third finally. How thorough is SEPTA in verifying your gender when you buy your transpass? Is there anyway to have it tagged as the gender you represent/appear as and not "legal"? I would assume that would cause less issues than removing sticker, going by legal name on card and still having the awkward situations.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
On discrimination
You're looking for some set of absolutes to define descrimination. I think there aren't any. And I question whether there's any such thing as "valid" discrimination if it affects people differently for simply being who they are. In this obvious situation, if transgender people feel that the policy of distributing SEPTA passes by gender is discriminatory, it certainly should be eliminated because there is no valid reason why they should be distributed that way.
As to the larger issue of whether a driver is discriminating against someone because he/she feel that a rider's appearance doesn't match what they assume the rider should look based on their name - I would say it falls under a category of prejudice because it has an impact on different people differently for reasons that have no inherant relevance to the intended purpose. Someone's appearance has no inherent correlation to their intent to commit fraud. To use appearance as a criteria to measure someone's intent to commit fraud is a lazy way to approach the problem.
As such, steps should be taken to rectify the situation. If you're going to check people's ID - you either need to do so for everyone, or do as you suggest and do spot checks randomly without basing the checks on any particular criteria.
That would, in some cases, be less efficient than using the superficial characteritics of someone's apparent gender identity as a criterion. But hey, life is tough, and we all have a responsibility to extent sensitivity to other people's situation.
On the other hand, in the larger sense, it would prevent the continuation of a system which is inefficient; as has been pointed out, there is plenty of room for fraud within gender groups - so using an criterion of someone's apparent gender does little to rectify the problem you're intending to address, but worse, creates an illusion of protection against fraud - which is probably more damaging in the long run and in the end, means that an illusion of protection is created by a policy that is detrimental to some individuals.
You might think that being asked to prove ID is no hardship. But you need to put yourself in the shoes of people who would be singled out and called into question for an aspect of their identity that they consider to be just as valid as you would consider any aspect of your identity.
I suspect that behind your comments is some distaste for "political corectness." As I see it, in most situations, political correctness is just another word for common decency.
No, no absolutes. Just
No, no absolutes. Just curious where some people draw the line.
If the new procedure is to do spot checks of al people's ID, hey I am ok with that.
As for the inefficiency, it is strictly assumption. Again, we don't know how much they estimate to save by cutting fraud with the stickers. I am not saying it makes it a valid reason, but I am saying it is not something to discount out of hand. We don't know if it was found that opposite sex couples were 90% of the fraud or not. That was one point I had about "we don't have all the info about the policy." If that is the case, it would be a very efficient system then.
Even though I do have some distaste or political correctness, it is not the case here. Ultimately, I don't care about the stickers and I believe SEPTA will remove them without much fuss. What I did hve a problem with was the ideas that
1) It was assumed there is no need for the stickers.
2) SEPTA was some evil beast for having them.
3) The discrimination tag. I don't believe discrimination is the appropriate term and it gets thrown around too easily. I do believe that the gender stickers were an anti-fraud tool that has resulted in ignorant people using them for non-professional reasons and making people feel awkward. Discrimination, in the sense we are discussing, is the unjust or prejudicial treatment of people. I don't think the system of stickers was prejudicial or unjust. It was a benign system that was apparently abused by ignorant folks.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
and no need for fuzziness
There are objective legal standards for what is and isn't discriminatory. We can argue if the line is set so the right things fall inside and outside, but there is no need to be muddy about our language.
Legally recognized discrimination doesn't always require intent or prejudice. Certain things (race, and to a less extent sex) are considered important enough and to have a serious enough history of unfair treatment that we look very suspiciously at laws and policies that impact people of one or another race or sex differently.
Gender identity hasn't been recognized federally as protected in that way, though some states and municipalities have gone beyond federal anti-discrimination protections and added it as a category that needs special attention and protection.
You are doing two things: stretching credulity in trying to imagine ways that the current policy (which appears not to be seen as the way to go by other transit systems) might be efficient, and refusing to recognize that the people affected could (and the record seems to show, do) experience the policy as discriminatory or unnecessarily impacting them.
Even if the number affected is small, we can sit here all day and talk about why this group of people is especially in need of anti-discrimination protections (anti-discrimination in the legal, constitutional equal protection sense, which would reject a policy that particularly affects a vulnerable group without being justified by being both needed to achieve a valid government goal and effective in doing so).
Jennifer
No, I am pointing out that
No, I am pointing out that discounting fraud out of hand is inaccurate. By understanding why something is done, it helps to come to a reasonable fix.
The problem with the discriminatory label is that it paints SEPTA as bad and SEPTA wasn't being bad. It had a benign policy that didn't translate to the current times. I never said the policy couldn't unnecesarily impact transgendered people. On that grounds I did say SEPTA should address the policy.
Ultimately my concern is how so many issues get turned into a hot point and outrage is put forth in a flurry of emotions. Very rarely do you get moderate responses. "We understand SEPTA has a need to catch transpass fraud, but the current procedures with gender stickers makes certain people uncomfortable as well as being inappropriately used by employees." It addresses the point without demonizing the target.
I agree that if a significant amount (and I say significant merely as a separation because you will always find someone to complain about something) of people are impacted by this, then SEPTA needs to deal with it.
As an aside, I am curious about something else. Has anyone gone to SEPTA and addressed this issue or are they going right to the committee? If so, what did SEPTA say?
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
yeah
See Kathy's first post, below:
Jennifer
I hope SEPTA gets the
I hope SEPTA gets the message that their policy is unnecessarily affecting a certain demographic of the population.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
I've gotta agree
I never quite got the idea of the M/F sticker either. OK, maybe it's a very, very simple way to check if a pass actually belongs to the person holding it. But, on another level, why should SEPTA really care one way or the other- the pass has been paid for, so why should they care who's using it?
-Z
It is purchased for one
It is purchased for one person, not for unlimited users. If you hand it off to another person who works a different shift and uses it while you sleep, that is $18 a week SEPTA is losing in revenue.
SEPTA cares because it costs money to run buses and trains.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
Adam, I'm shocked, just
Adam, I'm shocked, just shocked, to find out that you disagree with eliminating the gender ID from SEPTA passes. I have a small suggestion. Before you write another comment slamming what someone else is trying to do, you should write your own policy post about something. I don't care what you write about, but it would be interesting to see you actually contribute something to the site.
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Sometimes I wonder, do we
Sometimes I wonder, do we beat up on Adam because we feel like it. Ben, are you really "shocked, just shocked" that someone disagrees with you. Or are you being sarcastic.
I don't agree with Adam. But, related to at least the need for some type of identifier on these passes for revenue reasons, I think he is right.
We can all disagree on what that is. Personally, I think the gender identifier is foolish. When I swipe the card, the bus driver is hardly ever looking. It has no effect. Whether it is discriminatory, I guess the Human Relations Dep't will have to determine. On its face, I think it is not only foolish but somewhat questionable.
I am a big supporter of
I am a big supporter of civility on this and other sites. And, I think you know, I am fine with people disagreeing with me. Look, everytime a new post comes up, Adam is always one of the first people to reply with something negative. 99.9% of the time he picks aparts other people's ideas without offering anything in return. He is obviously a smart guy and I'd rather hear his ideas that the constant criticism of others.
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Check out my blog!
In all fairness, Adam does sometimes
contribute some really bad jokes along with his negative comments.
Credit where credit is due.
Thanks! I knew someone had
Thanks! I knew someone had my back. ;)
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
I am not against
I am not against eliminating. I am against the grounds and the lack of replacement. I am still waiting for someone to describe how it is actually discriminatory. As far as I know, no one is being refused service. If they are, then it is a service issue, not because of the sticker. I do not see a problem with the ability of a bus driver to notice a marking that implies there is fraudulent activity going on and warrant an ID check.
What is proposed to allow SEPTA to circumvent fraud? The only other options are photos on every transpass or random ID checks of everyone that gets on a bus. If there is actual discrimination going on and the random ID checks is the best way to solve it, then I am all for it. BUT if there is no actual discrimination going on, then the increase in service times requiring random ID checks is not worth it.
And no, I do not only criticize posts, but I would say, on this site, it would be more of a percentage, most likely. This is because
1) I think a lot of the ideas presented here tend to be too extreme and I try to temper them with some moderation
2) If I agree with someone's idea and I have nothing to add to it, I do not add white noise going "yeah me to!"
3) I do write and propose ideas. In fact, a good chunk of my negatives usually come with a supplementary idea or interpretation.
I have been supportive of several ideas. Just off the top:
I was supportive of the idea of voting for Oh because he is more progressive GOP than the current two in power. Unfortunately I had to post contradictory points when people came out of the woodwork and basically said "if you vote GOP for any reason, you go to Hell".
I was supportive of Gaetano's views on funding schools to the point of specifying that the grade schools need the biggest concentration of reform because future grades fall behind when the students already show up behind the curve. I even supplied a quick breakdown of school rankings to show my point. Of course then it got slightly negative because I was accused of forgetting the students already in the middle schools.
I was supportive of relocating at least one casino off the river and proposed placing it at the Disney Hole and supported it with my reasoning. It was glossed over for "no casinos or bust".
I do post supportives. They just aren't fly off the handle type posts, so they tend to get missed by people not looking for a hot point to champion.
For you though, to show I am not devoid of positive programs and ideas, will put forth a post.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
well, the complaint indicates that *somebody* is having trouble
I am still waiting for someone to describe how it is actually discriminatory. As far as I know, no one is being refused service.
ok, imagine being a heavyset short-haired person named Pat. (gender ambiguous, both on Saturday Night Live and in real life.) why should you be challenged on your right to use your legally purchased pass? would you find this offensive? what if the individual conductor didn't believe you?
even more obvious, imagine being a man living trangendered as a woman. which pass should you purchase? if it has to be the male one, do you have to pull down your pants every time a ticket taker asks? (in which case, could anything be more offensive, given that your male parts go against your sense of personal identity?)
really, for my part, I don't know how/when this comes up. I go through a turnstyle in a crowded station, swiping my pass, and I doubt any SEPTA employee even sees what color sticker I have. maybe on buses and trolleys, where you're automatically right in front of the driver, it comes up more often. either way, I sympathize with SEPTA's wanting to keep couples from sharing passes (esp. one during the week, the other on weekends), but I doubt that this helps that much, and there are plenty of other types of sharing/fraud with which it helps not at all . . .
acm
Uh - yes there are people effected by this
I know several transgender people who have been kicked off pubic transit due to the policy. Don't you find it the tiniest bit worthy of consideration that no other transit agency in the country finds this marker necessary for fraud prevention (or any other purpose)?
You arguments assume good faith by those who have discriminated - just show your ID & you'll be fine. I assume this is due to a lack of exposure to and understanding of the real world issues and consequences trnsgender people face. When a visibly transgender person is singled out for this type of discriminatory treatment - it doesn't happen in a reasoned atmosphere of equality of power between those having an engaging discourse. Often - the transgender person is fearful of violence - not just from the driver/conductor - but also from everyone in this public location they've just been outed to. And should they seek recourse to higher ups - they need to out themselves again.
When some people read you as one sex & others read you as either the other or as transgender - which sticker do you choose? You're pretty well screwed either way if you're not consistently "read" as one gender 100% of the time. And ID is never a straightforward issue for us - you say just show your ID.But different agencies have different standards for changing your ID, often leaving one with conflicting markers.A joy for those who have to interact with the police and petty bureaucrats - or who just wish to maintain some privacy about their medical histories.
And of course - many people can't afford the $1,000 in Court fees, publication in the Legal Intelligencer & Attorneys fees to legally change their name in this City. Let alone the diverse requirements for changing the gender marker. The unemployment rate for transgender people makes that an unobtainable sum for many - which of course is further exacerbated by the difficulty getting any employment when your name doesn't match your presentation.
As a rather pointed example of officials acting in bad faith in this matter - consider the case of Ms. Patti Shaw (reported in the Wash Blade Friday, November 28, 2003. The story no longer appears to be available online - but I can email a copy to any who have an interest.
Here's the gist - and by no means is she the only transgender person to experience this:
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Trans woman reports sexual assault in D.C. male cellblock
Incident prompts police to consider changing record system
By LOU CHIBBARO JR.
Friday, November 28, 2003
A transsexual woman arrested last month in a domestic dispute was placed in a male cellblock at the D.C. Superior Court after authorities determined they had no procedure for changing her gender from male to female in the court’s criminal records system.
The incident, in which one or more male prisoners reportedly sexually assaulted the woman, has prompted D.C. police and court officials to consider changing a record system that failed to recognize her correct gender, despite the fact that she had undergone sex-change surgery and a legal name change.
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One might say she should merely have spoken up and pointed out their error - they of course did not listen when she did. One might think an officer doing her strip search would recognize a vagina and have concern that they were placing a woman in prison with men - some of whom may be there under rape charges.
But - that would assume good faith on the part of those who are discriminating.
It is always difficult to understand the issues faced by others when you don't face them yourself. I invite you to deepen your understanding by - say - presenting as a person going through transition for a month.
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On to a related issue - the National Center for Transgender Equality has issued an action item on RealID - please contact your Senator on this issue.
Real ID Act. Real Nightmare for Trans People.
Tell Senators to Vote to Remove Real ID from Immigration Bill
NCTE has been working in coalition with dozens of civil rights and civil liberties organizations to stop the dangerous Real ID Act from implementation. The Real ID Act is a nightmare for many communities, and could be particularly harmful to the privacy and safety of transgender people. The Act calls for the creation of a nationally shared database of ID information and the creation of a national ID card. This could have the effect of outing trans people when databasing reveals discrepencies in legal names and gender markers and could make it more difficult for us to obtain identification that matches our gender expression.
This time we have less than 48 hours to stop this national ID card scheme -- though we'll likely need to raise our voice again to halt the Real ID Act.
The US Senate is scheduled to vote either today or tomorrow on two amendments that will remove Real ID provisions from the immigration bill.
Tell your Senators it's time for them to do their part.
You can fax your Senators and take immediate action by visiting:
http://unrealid.com/action.html
The Senate received over 20,000 faxes in 26 hours from coalition members the last time a call to action was issued on Real ID...let's beat that record!
Thank you for all that you do!
National Center for Transgender Equality
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email: ncte@nctequality.org
phone: 202.903.0112
web: http://www.nctequality.org
Many thanks to EA & Attorney
Many thanks to EA & Attorney Eyer! The issue has been a perennial one with SEPTA. Five years ago, a Philadelphia transwoman provided testimony before City Council on her experience of being kicked off a SEPTA bus by a driver who felt she didn't met his appearance standards - the PGN also had a story from July of 2006 on the issue. SEPTA’s rationale for their policy in that article was:
"Richard Maloney, director of public affairs for SEPTA, said, -snip-
He continued, "The purpose of the stickers is to cut down on family fraud, such as husband to wife. Because the tickets have unlimited value — you could use it 1,000 times — there is quite certain exchangeability in families."
-snip-
"For SEPTA's part, Maloney, who said he didn't know of any other city that uses gender identification for its transportation system, said the organization is currently analyzing its "antique" fare system and could implement an upgrade in the next several years.
He added that they have not heard from the transgender community specifically on this issue and would like to hear concerns and suggestions."
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The obvious dissembling on the part of SEPTA given the record of how many times the issue has been raised is only matched by the ludicrousness of the policy's rationale - denying the existence of same sex couples, other family members or even neighbors who might use the pass.
This does at least provide an opportunity to discuss how identification presents difficulty for transgender people in all spheres - particularly since RealID and security measures have been implemented. There doesn't seem to be any need for a gender designation of driver’s licenses - like other items that have been removed it should be eliminated.
The RealID provisions requiring digital copies immediately accessible of birth certificates and other documents at police traffic stops, to get license renewals and passports will out people in unsafe situations. It will also make obtaining renewals for those of us whose past & present documents don't match much more difficult & likely end up with said folks ending up on security watch lists who certainly don't represent a greater risk to the public. And you’ll likely have difficulty entering government buildings where one goes to address these issues in your documents. You can rest assured that the increased restrictions on changing ones gender marker on passports will place transgender people who travel outside the country at greatly increased risk of violence and harassment. It will make us targets.
I feel safer already!
It IS discrimination.
It IS discrimination. Since gender is hardly the binary that some people think it is, this policy sets up all kinds of potential conflicts and unnecessarily awkward siutations for individuals whose apperance does not match simple gender expectations or who are literally in the state of physically transitioning.
Beyond that it is a positively crummy enforcement tool. There is nothing that stops me from sharing my M pas with my 5 bothers and 15 male housemates so as a policy its really the worst of both worlds. In Paris per ride tickets and short term passes have no ID requirement but monthly passes which offer a significant disount involve permanant ID cards with a photo to avoid sharing of passes. Remember the movie Amelie - stations really do have lots of picture booths because people use the picture for their passes. Obviously a better policy.
With the funding crisis,
With the funding crisis, obviously switching to a permanent card system and revamping everything is out of the question. This means that, if they want to institute fraud control and cover a large grouping, random ID checks for everyone is necessary.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
You're not trans, Adam,
so don't presume to know whether the gender marker is an issue of discrimination or not. You do not ever face this discrimination, so how can you possibly tell me, a trans woman, whether I am impacted by this or not? You really need to listen to the voices of those who are injured by this policy, but your comments in this thread indicate that you are not willing to do that.
When I got my June transpass, I had to specifically ask for a female sticker, as he was about to put on a male sticker. When I got my July transpass, the agent put on a female sticker without my having to ask. Two different agents, two different interpretations of my gender.
Furthermore, and this is the crux of the problem for me, this "what's the big deal, just show my id" doesn't work for me. If I show my id, I will be hassled in a big way. My driver's license still has a male gender marker on it, because PA state law requires that I have surgury before they will permit the marker to be changed. I have not been able to **afford** surgury. Am I supposed to just suck it up, and risk arrest and **certain** abuse at the hands of police, just to satisfy SEPTA's senseless policy and your gender entitlement? I think not.
Thanks for your story
Adam is our resident gadfly, and not representative of the YPP community in any way. Thanks a lot for telling your story.
No, I never claimed to be a
No, I never claimed to be a representative of the YPP community. I am definitely a much more moderate progressive than the likes of the core YPPers.
Even though I do not jump on all of the YPP bandwagons, at least not to the same degree they wish for, I do appreciate Dan remaining open to me being part of the community. Even though he far and away does not agree with anything I say (or if he ever does, he probably won't go on the record) I gather he knows I am not here to bash people, but to be involved in discussion since I do handle things maturely and don't resort to name calling, abuse and the fact some people on the site do agree (even openly!) to some things I say.
So, for the record and in front of everyone, I do say thank you. He has shown that, even if you don't agree with him, as long as you handle yourself civilly and as an adult, he does not act heavy handed.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
Rachel, I have acknowledged
Rachel, I have acknowledged the archaic policy is creating awkward situations for a certain demographic of the population. That IS a reason SEPTA needs to address it. The problem is, apparently, some stupid and ignorant bus drivers are using a benign tool to be jerks and hurtful. I also believe those drivers should be severely reprimanded by whatever process they have in place for that behavior. There is no excuse for those actions.
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"yes adam gave some informative comments but he also seems to sprinkle a little adam dust on it." - merkin
Blowing up!
Blowing up!