Didn't Voltaire say: you may be a bit of a moron but so long as you shut up after a minute I won't shoot you in the street? Ish?

I think everyone on here knows where my political sympathies lie, in general, right? So hopefully I'll be given the benefit of the doubt when I say the following: NARAL is a pack of hypocrites and, while CBS has a boardroom full of candyasses, I'm marginally more on the network's side in this whole Superbowl pro-life ad brouhaha than I am on the side of the nation's chief pro-choice lobby. Don't know what I'm talking about? No worries. I'm not going to be watching the Superbowl either, but here you go. And this, too.

Focus on the Family has raised the money to run a pro-life ad featuring some pigskin tossing mouthbreather during the Superbowl. My reaction: yawn. But I'm alone in this. The annual media fubar that is the NFL championship wouldn't be complete without some ad getting cut and much of the political community going wiggy about it. The difference this year seems to be that the economy is crap and most commercial outfits can't afford the pricetag of an ad in the biggest television event of the year, so CBS seems to have lowered its standards for controversy.

The network has accepted the pro-life ad. I say: GOOD. As far as I'm concerned, there should only be two standards that networks apply to selling their ads: 1) is there still a spot left and 2) do you have the money. I think it's fantastic that issue ads are going up. Maybe some thinking will get done. I doubt it, but maybe. It's less offensive than the usual fare, more on that in a paragraph, tho.

Now, CBS had to complicate the issue (and make themselves candyasses, in my estimation) this year by rejecting an ad offered by a new gay men's dating site called MANCRUNCH. That's messed up. They should have accepted the ad just as they accepted the pro-life ad. In the past, our team has had its ads rejected (like the awesome PETA ad from last year -- okay, maybe you don't think PETA is your team, but it's my team, so whatever). That always infuriated me. Wussy, wussy, wussy. I get so sick of the perpetual terror of "offending" anyone. Good heavens, people, quit bowdlerizing our whole freaking life. If we're going to stand for something then somebody is going to stand against us. That's the story of history. It's fine. It's a much better story, in fact, than any silly Superbowl has ever been. Let it go. Let it happen.

Because do you know what really, really galls me about this whole conversation? The implicit assumption that there's nothing offensive about crassly commercial ads. Those are okay. "Buy this iPod -- you can get it in blue now!" "Buy this perfume -- it's by Britney!" A bunch of worthless stuff that no one needs -- driving the kind of buy, buy, buy mentality that put our country in such a bind, that drives the awful boom & bust cycle that puts people on the streets and shatters family: THAT'S okay. We don't even talk about that.

We can run 10 Million ads a day about taking animals and putting them in a grinder and selling them with ketchup, a process that has left the Chesapeake Estuary on life-support thanks to all the filth we dump in it, but no one is going to grouse if Dave Thomas hocks another chicken sandwich... but let an ad come out based on some sort of political principle. Well. That just has to be stopped. I might, God forbid, disagree. My delicate NPR crafted sensibilities might be unsettled. I just want to eat my nachos. Hully gee!

Look, I don't agree with the principle of Focus on the Family, but stifling political speech, even very, very loud speech, is pretty much always the wrong the call. Moreover, any sort of political stance is, in my estimation, more enlightening for the viewing public than another suggestion that maybe it's time for you to lease a flashy new car.

But let's not forget my special little estimation of disdain for NARAL's conduct in this affair. What's so obviously, pathetically, embarrassingly hypocritical about NARAL's hand-wringing demands for political squelching? It's this: if NARAL had the cash it would run an ad. Of course they would. NARAL would do it in a second, and I say: Good! Find some cash! Do it next year! But don't try to silence the opposition. That's why the NARAL complaint rings so hollow with me. I'm more than a little embarrassed for them. But, hey, if you disagree, go up to the first link I gave you and sign their petition. That's where it goes. That's how this experimental republic of ours was meant to work.

Look, I am a uniter, not a divider, and Focus on the Family and NARAL both have something in common here: they are both wrong. And they both have the right to be wrong, in public, loud and proud and the right for you to get a chance to hear it. I may have gotten that Voltaire quote wrong in my headline. It might have been: I may want to haul off and pop you one right now but I won't so long as when you're done ranting I can have a bit of a rant, too -- you bloody neandrathal. Or something like that. Anyway, however he put it, it was a pretty good principle. Once upon a time, liberals stood for openness and a free exchange. Frankly, I think we still should.
--
www.thistoowillpass.com

Thanks, Brady, for raising the secret little scandal

behind capitalism. It only exists through an ethic of exploitation of (wo)man by (wo)man, both physical and mental. The more the economy does well, the more junk and useless consumption we've been manipulated into acquiring. The "better off" we are, the worse off we really are by rushing from useless purchase to the next, never satisfying the urge that's promoted all around us to still consume more. And now, since 9/11 we've become convinced it's patriotic to buy what we don't need or even like; we must keep our economy "healthy" or else the terrorists and/or China will win.

Of course there's a minimum amount of stuff we truly need in order to thrive. But we all know the impulses that we feel to get out of our couches and run to the gadget store don't have anything to do with thriving. They arise because the brain and spirit is weak, and because everyone else is doing it and because we must report what we've accumulated on Facebook.

And all of the "economic development" projects, local and national, are based on feeding this psychosis of buying. We're all so glad we "saved" GM. So now in our grand state of accomplishment, GM too, in addition to Toyota, Hyundai and Ford, can continue sending smiling avatars at us through the tube, roaring along the highway, happy as can be, encouraging us to pour GM carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, helping to kill 40,000 people a year on our roads. And we give tens of millions to Comcast so it can send as much drivel our way as possible, promoting all the car companies, all the "defense" industries through army/marine/navy recruiting and Fox News, the latest horror flicks, and of course, a thousand varieties of perfume, beer and mouthwash.

The Citizens' United ruling is getting set to formalize what is already the case. Big business owns us, not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually. Not that we shouldn't fight this latest encroachment on our autonomy. By all means we should. But we need to realize how far we need to go to win back our souls. Do we live to buy, or buy to live? Until we can stop being bedeviled by that question, our basic humanity will remain at risk.

Thanks, Stan-- yelling at Focus on the Family is a light lift

Thanks, I'm with you. It's easy to get bent out of shape about a social issue. Granted, it's really important if it hits your life one day, but it might be more important to analyze how the decisions we make about the way we live -- and the system we've been pretty much forced into -- really end up hurting us and other people all the time. That's not a light lift. That's looking at the fundamental nature of our lives and our society.

But forget about that. Let's watch TV and hiss James Dobson. That's more important.

---
This Too Will Pass, for the guts in your cerebrum.

This discussion may be

beyond the scope of this blog. But your post told me it's time to get this vent off my chest. Now that I have, I'm with you, let's get our boo off at Dobson. But let's also be sure to just say mute to all the other "great" Superbowl ads whose only purpose is to turn our minds into one seamless mush from sea to shiny sea.

which situation do you consider

more optimal? france, where 50 out of the 50 largest french companies were started before ww11 or in america where the majority of the largest 50 were created in the last 30 years? there is both a bad side ( people wasting millions on stupid products on infomercials) and a good side ( cos like apple and microsoft, google etc creating thousands of good jobs from producing products that a govt run economy could never have realistically thought of.)

You posit a false choice

You posit a false choice between ad inundation + a control-based economy (which France is not, incidentally). No-one here has ever, to my knowledge, even suggested that command-and-control is a better economic model than capitalism. To paraphrase Sir Winston, capitalism is the worst possible system, except for all the others.

-Z

Command and control

is not the only alternative to monopoly, cutthroat capitalism. Democratic socialism, Swedish style, is a much better idea. I know, I know, Sweden is small, we are big. That doesn't by itself mean that a Swedish type system, adapted to US conditions, couldn't work here.

I will note, however, a

I will note, however, a major cultural difference between Sweden + the US: the Swedish concept of 'lagom.' Literally, 'lagom' means 'enough,' and refers to a deep-seated cultural idea by which everyone has a chance to get 'enough' of a shared resource. Not too little, not too much. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagom

This stands in stark contrast w/the rather more Anglo-Saxon (although British would probably be a better term, since the Swedes are, themselves, Saxon) concept which could be better described as 'every (wo)man for themselves.'

In effect, Sweden's very culture lends itself to the kind of socialized capitalism which they practice. Perhaps not so much in the US, but that doesn't mean that we can't smooth out some of capitalism's rough edges.

But that's a discussion for another thread.

-Z

Nobody said that it would be easy

to get to an economy in the US not completely controlled by Wall Street robber barons and war profiteers. But since the fate of the world may depend upon it, we best not give up.

The internet

was pretty much invented by the military, which, before the Blackwater takeover, was pretty much a govt. run entity I'm pretty sure. Much of the pharmaceutical research resulting in new drugs was done by the National Institutes of Health. The opensource movement is doing much of the best work on web browsers like Firefox. So much for the notion that people magically get stupider if they work for govt. or dispense with the profit motive.

On the plus side for the private sector's creativity, however, you somehow failed to give due praise to credit default swaps and Wall Street's transformation into a giant vacuum cleaner capable of robbing every man, woman and child not a Goldman Sachs chief exec of most of everything they own. (That wealth stripping job is not complete yet as the Fortune 400 richest now have net worth still equaled by the bottom 50% of all Americans. That still leaves several trillion yet to be looted.) Logging and farming combines are also on schedule to destroy the rain forests and drain the earth of the very oxygen we need to breathe; other corporations are busy making weapons of mass destruction to more directly kill people in the name of insanely profitably nationalisms of one sort or another. A very good business model there. And then of course we have the creativity of companies such as Monsanto that are changing the very DNA of the seed grain we need to feed whatever populations survive their rapacious cousins.

Thank you so much monopoly, military-industrial complex-financial robber baron capitalism. Profuse apologies for any offense previously given.

GREAT article on Sweden's economic system v. ours by Dan Brook

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=307

I no longer call myself a Democratic Socialist because the term is associated with too many eurofile haters of one stripe or another, and I'm definitely a proud and patriotic American to begin with, and a happy reformist-warrior against government waste to boot.

European classism, ethnocentrism and other bigotries drive me up a wall too. Ugh, dying continent (with nice classical music, medieval architecture and new wave cinema though).

I sure like universal health care, universal day care, free college, and a well-regulated business community.

Fascinating article; thank

Fascinating article; thank you for sharing it.

As for how I choose to label myself, I don't. As my Rabbi's wife once put it, when you label yourself, you limit yourself. But I'd like to see the world, to paraphrase Alexander Dubcek rather ironically, evolve towards capitalism w/a human face.

-Z

that was a very informative article

its undeniable that a blue collar or office worker etc has a higher quality of living in sweden and all of the eu than in america , but thats if your one of the lucky ones to get such a job. from 2000 until the start of the recession, america created 10 times as many jobs as the eu, which combined has a similar size economy and population as america.ten times is a huge difference. if the eu only created one tenth the jobs that america did, do you know what ever happened to all the thousands of people who entered the eu workforce every year that couldn't get one of ,what appears to be, the relatively rare good blue collar or office /clerical jobs. i was in greece before their elections and saw first hand in street marches across the country in support of the left party , of the support for the left. upon entering offive they realised the debt situation was so bad they had to either default on the debt or actually cut , not freeze , govt workers pay , benefits and pensions. since default was out of the question govt cuts are actually being enacted. perhaps there is a question mark whether the european model is sustainable.

History didn't end before the start of the recession

The recession is the natural, if perhaps unplanned, child of the U.S. model of (all but) unrestrained market rule. Those "thousands of people who entered the eu workforce" without jobs are more than mirrored now by the 17% of our workforce un and underemployed. And, of course, our unemployed are completely left out to dry, with millions of them not even qualifying for unemployment benefits, and having no health care.

And remember the "externalities", the social costs of our insistence on giving big biz every incentive they want, and leaving the country full of rich people and corporations who can buy every government in sight. Sam may be interested in cost containment, but will never get it with the demands of corporate welfare being both insatiable and irresistable. And, I'm afraid I have to remind you, it seems that we're getting ready to burn up the planet at the behest of that person Exxon.

In sum, the issue of capitalism is not just what it means for individual workers facing income disparities that would have been unthinkable under the New Deal. It's the utter lack of social concern that's built into the DNA of our corporate "people." Furthermore, now that these "people" have successfully bought the Supreme Court along with the other branches, the sad truth is that what we or anyone else has to say about this situation has become virtually irrelevant. How are we going to afford the air time? How many completely underfunded politicians are we going to elect to get anything done not pre-approved by our real rulers?

This has been an interesting little dialogue. But the real issue is not capitalism v. socialism. It's democracy v. a very quickly emerging corporate oligarchy. Or some, like me, would say v. fascism with a friendly face

Wrong about "virtually irrelevant" and "quickly emerging"

The Supreme Court ruling totally sucks.

It's going to make holding the large Democratic majorities in Congress, as well as holding the White House, more difficult than it already was.

But hey, if there were a time to wallow and whine, a year when Democrats hold the White House, the House and the Senate just ain't it, Stan.

Democrats definitely have their work cut out for them, trying to legislate around a horrific ruling, I'll grant you.

But we have enough money and incumbency, even progressive incumbency, to put up a better fight than we have for most of the last thirty years. People with gray hair, as we have, are supposed to remember that.

Since 1980 those corporate oligarchs have been calling the shots all too often -- far too often and long for you to call them quickly emerging.

Our real rulers are still our elected leaders, and every left wing conspiracy theorist or Foucault-ian wise guy who says otherwise needlessly helps the right by doing so by discouraging left wing political participation.

They still don't regulate business as much as they should, and the Supreme Court wants to give away the store.

But the fact is they can.

The thing that should get progressives out of bed and fighting every day is that we have more opportunity to accomplish real regulation, real reform, and real good -- like passing a health care bill -- now in 2010 than we have in a very, very long time.

It's easy to get down after some hard fights and tough losses (or to want to pretend government waste doesn't exist or doesn't matter just because corporations steal billions).

But if progressives fight smart, regulate smart, reform smart, and work hard to spend smart, we still can make things better.

You're right; I'm venting,

maybe even whining a bit. (If Keith Olbermann could concede that much to Jon Stewart, I can do that for you.) But it's truth-based whining. I'm a LOST fan, so hopefully there's an alternate reality out there in which 70 or so Democrats don't need to be elected to the Senate just to get confirmation of decent members of the NLRB. But I'm not seeing it.

Still, let me clarify. We need to continue to fight, and fight hard, for that alternate and better reality, if for no other reason than it's the right thing to do, and because not fighting helps create self-fulfilling bad prophecies. But I'm growing serious doubts about the project of reforming the Democratic Party from within. Half of all the Wall Street money goes to Democrats. They just love that money; they're addicted to it. I don't know where the 12 step program is that will cure them of that.

This problem of money and the Democrats has to be discussed; it can't be swept under the rug. Something drastic has to be done. I'm thinking out loud here. Maybe we should only support Democrats who take this pledge: Job 1 when I get elected is to enact public financing for all candidates for all offices above the level of dogcatcher.

So again, we have to keep going. Maybe some kind of decent health care plan is still in sight. Let's keep going for it. And let's go for other tough things. That certainly includes curbing government waste. But, Sam, the very definition of government waste is the billions that are siphoned off the top for agribusiness, financial "consultants" of every stripe, insurance and drug companies providing no value to Medicare recipients, and defense contractors. It's the money, Sam, it's the money that's running everything, and that enables all the graft. So as we recommit ourselves to working as hard as we can for as long as we can, let's also be clear about what we have to do. And it's not just going after corrupt politicians -- although it's definitely that -- without also going after their paymasters.

You are, of course, 100%

You are, of course, 100% correct about the indebtedness of both major parties on Wall Street and other corporate cash, and that this indebtedness can only be expected to increase post-Citizens United v. FEC.

However, while there is no 12-step program to cure such an addiction, the solution is quite straightforward: 100% public financing of elections. The problem, of course, is that the very politicians who could enact such a system are the very ones who are profiting nicely from the status quo.

-Z

The high cost of winning elections is the problem

Election reform is the answer. Accomplishing it is the question.

Do we need an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, one of the best things they ever wrote down on 5th Street?

Maybe. Legal scholars are weighing in. At Philly For Change Meetup last night, State Representative Babette Josephs said she's convening a conference at Harrisburg next month to deal with that very question at the state level.

I'll post details when I get them.

Is the Democratic Party unreformable?

No, I'd say, adding that I very much prefer the Democratic Party of 2010 to the party of 2000 or 1990.

The increased presence of Wall Street money is problematic but is largely attributable to the fact that we've been winning most of the seats in Washington recently. Wall Street always backs a winner (don't forget -- lest we despair in excess -- because it is in their best interest to do so).

Progressives need to stay active, and active in electoral politics, in order to be politically relevant. In most parts of the country that means being the Democratic Party, just as conservatives have stayed loud and unfortunately overly-represented in the media, thanks to Fox, and have taken over a lot of the Republican party (though their recent victories have been achieved by sounding like moderates in Massachusetts, New Jersey and Virginia).

Bring back Howard Dean, I say, by the way. I did prefer when he was running the DNC.

I love public financing too, Stan.

But I also love the ideal of democracy, so I respect fellow voters who don't agree with me all the time but who are liberal enough so that they might; I respect them enough to care about whether enough of them are likely to back public financing right now. My guess is probably not, not while the recession is going on.

So insisting that all politicians back public financing now may not be such a good idea because if it means a) more Democrats will lose or b) fewer Democrats will listen to the left.

Just a thought, and no reason to not push and push hard for public financing now; it just may not be the best time for public financing to be a litmus test.

Oh, and I continue to believe that if I want more and better social spending, I damn well ought to be loud and relentless in rooting out government waste and corruption, of course including fat cat contracts with businesses that back politicians.

Interesting poll on popularity of public campaign financing

From the New Haven Register:

A Zogby International Poll has found a large majority of state residents favor a public campaign financing system.

Commissioned by Common Cause, half of those tallied said they were not aware of the system in Connecticut, which would apply to statewide offices for the first time this year.

But when the program was explained, 79 percent said they favored it, with 58 percent behind fixing those elements that are being challenged in court so it will be functioning for the this year’s elections.

Eighty-six percent of the 503 people interviewed earlier in the month agreed lobbyists and political insiders have more influence than average voters. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points. Common Cause is a nonpartisan advocacy group that has supported campaign finance reform for decades.

http://www.newhavenregister.com/articles/2010/01/28/news/a3-capfinance.t...

86% of the 503 people interviewed.....agreed lobbyists and political insiders have more influence than the average voters...."

This is yet another case where Dems cede populist ideas, which leaves the Republicans to appeal to working class voters on populist "framing." To me, this is like the term limits question in that Dems shoot themselves in the foot by failing to build a platform based on reasonable populism. This has been bothering me about the Dems for decades, when they decided to beat the Republicans by becoming Republican-lites.

If Dems really wanted to make the case for campaign finance reform (the single issue that I personally think is the engine of progressive change), they could do so in a convincing way.

We're between a rock, a concrete slab, and a hard place because our alternatives are to vote for Dems who don't think they can win with public financing (think Obama during the presidential campaign), Dems who don't think public financing is in their personal financial interests, or Republicans (or candidates who don't have a viable shot at getting elected - I guess I'd say we're between a rock, a concrete slab, a hard place, and a fluffy mattress that might feel good but you wake up from your dreaming wracked with pain).

And without public financing, this is what we get . . .

This is from Harold Meyerson, via Digby:

In the winter of 1933-34, with unemployment close to 25 percent, FDR aide Harry Hopkins put an astonishing 3 million people on the federal payroll in just 90 days, repairing airports, military bases and schools. This in a nation of just 130 million people -- the equivalent today would be around 7.5 million. Hopkins and Roosevelt faced the same criticisms -- over the size of the deficit and the growth of the federal government -- that Obama and the Democrats face. But the New Dealers persisted throughout the 1930s, reducing unemployment; building roads, airports and bases; and securing the allegiance of voters for decades to come.

Today's Democrats seem to lack the urgency, compassion and spine of their '30s forebears. Obama's proposals fail to challenge the conservative narrative that government can't engender worthwhile economic activity, so all we can do is cut taxes on business and hope for the best. No narrative is more in need of challenging, but Obama has demurred at the very moment he must make the affirmative case for government. With the private sector economically unable to produce jobs, and the public sector politically blocked from doing so, we are condemned to a long, dismal decade.

Public financing is the only thing that will enable us to recreate a real Party that represents real people going forward. Otherwise we are going to have stalemate, and/or endless rounds of tax cuts and band aids, none of which will come close to resolving the crisis that we're in.

My way or the highway feels good but usually isn't good politics

Public financing is great. I support it.

If 86% of America supports it, our problems are soon solved.

Somehow the 75% of California voters who rejected Proposition 89's public financing plan in 2006 forgot that, however.

I very much agree that we should keep pushing it. We just need to be very very realistic about it (and for some reason being very very realistic and Zogby polls don't always go together).

I'm glad we all agree Obama needs to change Reagan's corporate narrative; that's what the E.J. Dionne piece I posted 2 week ago says:

http://youngphillypolitics.com/needed_compelling_national_narrative

Fond as I am of FDR nostalgia, I don't long for the economic conditions of 1933, and I'm not convinced a Works Progress program can be sold to a nation that isn't in a Depression. Attempting one now likely would make keeping both houses of Congress in November very hard.

No Republican Congress would continue such a program in 2011.

Walter Mondale tried "I'm going to raise your taxes and pay for government services" in 1984 and lost 49 states.

Nothing worth doing will be easy

or will get the cooperation of Republicans. The bully pulpit is powerful, however, and in my humble opinion, Obama has squandered it for reasons outlined by Harold Meyerson. Obama, and most other Democrats in power, don't really believe in the New Deal as a model because he and they have too much of a financial stake in promoting an alternative, corporate-friendly recovery model. It has the unfortunate characteristic that it won't work. Of course, even that corporate friendly orientation is too left for the loony right part of the corporate oligarchy, which part is financing efforts at a really quick fascist takeover through the Republican Party or otherwise.

Bottom line for us and for Democrats who want to win and govern on behalf of real people: we need to promote ideas that work. Those who care about democracy, as you clearly do, Sam, presumably believe that if the truth gets out enough, it will prevail. So we should not worry that we will be demonized and caricatured, and marginalized for ideas that have merit. Public financing and large scale public works programs that put people to work fixing infrastructure, funding the arts, educating the young, and relieving human misery, are at the top of the list of very good ideas.

Where to you get "My way or the highway?"

I don't get where that's coming from.

Polls on public financing seem to be pretty much all over the map:

http://www.campaignmoney.org/polling

http://library.publicampaign.org/sites/default/files/MI%20poll%20on%20CF...

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/local/story/1123159.html

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/2009/10/poll_marylan...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/toplines/pt_surv...

and in particular this one:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/125333/public-agrees-court-campaign-money-fre...

Which only goes to suggest that "framing" and message could have the power to be decisive on this issue. For example, it might be argued that with proposition 89, it wasn't the notion of campaign financing restriction that failed to gain support, but that in the proposed legislation, public financing of campaigns would come via(corporate) taxes ($200 million annual) in a state with budgetary problems.

It seems that the constants in the polling are that sizable majorities agree that large contributions have a corrupting influence and that some degree of limitations are advisable. And those constants suggest that Dems are failing, once again, to take advantage of populist sentiment.

want to win = listen to voters' voices

That's how democracy usually works, not waiting for the scales to fall from the eyes of everyone who disagrees with you, or even bullying them into submission from any given pulpit.

Read the Dionne article. Reagan used the bully pulpit and started changing voters' minds regarding government spending (changing it in the wrong direction), but even he had to deal with political realities and hand over budget victories to his opponents.

You can blame Obama for not agreeing with you enough, that's fair; he needs to start talking about government spending as ponying up for Education and infrastructure to stay competitive with other countries; but it's just as accurate in 2010 to blame American voters for not believing in increasing government spending by large amounts in the manner of FDR and LBJ. For at the moment, they do not.

I want to deal with that electoral reality and move the ball as far as we can while winning elections -- rather than ceding elections and seeing how much worse the next George W. Bush or Sarah Palin can make things.

For as much as you may despair in this year of 58 Democratic senators, a Democratic House and president, don't pretend that things can't get a whole lot worse.

Democracy starts with

political leaders, in and out of government, proposing ideas. I don't know where you get the notion that Americans have completely rejected the idea of public works spending. No one with any significant power has actually proposed it that I know of; all that you hear are statements like yours presuming that somehow because this is 2010, and the last time we did it was 1933, that no one favors it anymore.

Furthermore, I don't quite get why you would think that we'll avoid disaster in the midterms by standing on a jobs program that a) the Republicans may block in any case, and b) only theoretically would create jobs. One thing that I think has been destroying Democratic credibility is Obama's inability to definitively prove that the stimulus has actually created jobs. You may think so, and I may think so, but with R's now having a majority in generic Congressional polling, I don't think a majority of Americans think so. We need a jobs program which enables you to actually count the number of people bringing in a paycheck.

The Democrats may be on the verge of losing Congress, Sam. I think that calls for doing things very differently, not just drifting down the road that's the Administration has plowed thus far. And for someone who prides himself on his practical approach to politics, I'd think you would agree.

To clarify

Back her on earth, I support a second stimulus and an increased jobs bill, just not one scaled the size of Franklin Roosevelt's 1933 plan.

To reiterate from two weeks ago and two hours ago, I agree with E.J. Dionne that President Obama must counter the right's narrative regarding social spending as outmoded or evil.

Dionne writes, and I agree:

the truth that liberals and Obama must grapple with is that they have failed so far to dent the right's narrative, especially among those moderates and independents with no strong commitments to either side in this fight.

The president's supporters comfort themselves that Obama's numbers will improve as the economy gets better. This is a form of intellectual complacency. Ronald Reagan's numbers went down during a slump, too. But even when he was in the doldrums, Reagan was laying the groundwork for a critique of liberalism that held sway in American politics long after he left office.

Progressives will never reach their own Morning in America unless they use the Gipper's method to offer their own critique of the conservatism he helped make dominant. It is still more powerful in our politics, as we are learning in Massachusetts, than it ought to be.

It is dangerous indeed to pretend that that anti-liberal narrative does NOT hold sway and is NOT dominant, and that Democrats need only remember FDR and America will fall in behind them.

If it were that easy, America would have fallen in behind (for example) Tom Harkin's presidential campaign in 1992, or Dennis Kucinich's campaigns in 2004 and 2008.

They beat the drum for New Deal politics.

They just didn't convince enough people to win.

We still have a ways to go before that particular message carries 51%, but I'm all for laying the groundworks while we win elections.

Right here, Josh

When Stan wrote:

Maybe we should only support Democrats who take this pledge: Job 1 when I get elected is to enact public financing for all candidates for all offices above the level of dogcatcher.

My problem is with the word "only".

It's just one line out of many many, so I can see how you missed it.

I support public financing too, but I don't think we're yet at a place where making public financing that kind of litmus test makes sense.

I'm glad you're optimistic enough to read public financing's 75-25 loss in one of the most progressive states as a mixed message. Keep it up.

In general it's not easy to build public support for new large spending initiatives that aren't linked to national security, but I really believe public financing has a future in the U.S. beyond matching funds in presidential races.

It's likely it will take time however.

I generally disagree with

I generally disagree with any type of litmus test. Just sayin'. It isn't good policy.

Actual polling on public works spending seems to suggest

that Americans like the idea, and to tax the rich to finance it. See this: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=awkrRPMONDW8

Only 25% support raising their own taxes to do so however

Same article.

If you raise their taxes, 75% bail. No surprise.

I agree we should raise taxes on rich people.

We likely will, by the way, by ending the Bush cuts for those making over $250K, but I believe we can politically benefit from restoring the graduated income tax up to the 50% bracket. I believe we should study the idea of going back to the even higher taxes on the rich we had in the 1950s.

We

agree!

am i write in saying that the top rate

in the 50s was 93% ? unfortunately ill probably never be in that bracket so i have to just theorise about what i would do if i had a small business and i hit the top bracket and my co was operating at full capacity and there was still unfilled demand for my product. would i go out and hire more people , do more paperwork,find more manufacturing capacity etc etc just to make 7k if i could make another 100k in profit? just me, but i wouldn't. in australia , which is far more to the left than america , the top bracket is 45% , which to me sounds about right. its far , far more important to do away with tax shelters like c corporations,which allow you to defer taxes on 180k a year until you reach 65 or charitable trusts which allow you to not pay any taxes on the principle and have you , your children and grandchildren live off the interest(which is taxable) until your grandchildren pass away and the charity then gets the principle.
in the 80s when reagan cut the top rate from 70% milllions and millions of dollars came back into the country as the cost of settting up overseas tax shelters in the camen islands etc then became more than the tax that was being charged in america.

We all agree that morning came to America

on the City on a Hill when Reagan blazed into town to wipe out all the tax and spenders. And we've lived happily ever after, except when anyone had the termerity to scare all the poor sensitive capitalists by even questioning Reagan's policies. Fortunately, all of that scaring stuff went away from 2001-2009 when our low taxed entrepreneurs went crazy producing all kinds of fabulous entrepreneurial products like predatory mortgage loans that made us all live happily ever after. I still thrill to the millions and millions of dollars that came back into the country under Reagan, which, unfortunately, the dirty democrats once again drove away, and then, not content with that, they convinced Bush to utterly destroy whatever was left by allowing the bankers to turn everything else into Monopoly money. ian, I'm so hoping that you can convince your Party, and the rest of us to just leave everything to the magic, not to mention the high ethical standards, of a completely uncontrolled market, where the efficiencies include not only having just a handful of people decide who gets to play with our money and actually get any, but where also just a handful of people -- the filthy beyond measure super rich -- have to trouble their poor heads deciding for the rest of us what things the so-called government ought to be allowed to pretend to do.

That's my idea of capitalist paradise. And I expect anyone who doesn't agree to be waterboarded until they get it or die.

i'm a democrat .

in the last post i supported a top rate of 45 % and elimination of tax shelters . you can't seriously be saying that if you don't agree with a top rate of 93% ( like in the 50s ) or 70% ( as in 1980) you can't be a democrat . do some research. the labor govt in australia is much, much further to the left than anything ive ever seen from your posts on this sight and even they think a 45% top rate is the optimal rate.

Ian

Zell Miller is a Democrat and so is Ben Nelson. But that's not what I consider them. And btw, I don't know if it's a socialist affectation to use capital letters, but it does make stuff much easier to read.

Oh, and marginal tax rates were around 90% under Eisenhower, and we didn't have 17% unemployment. The catastrophe that happened in 2008 occurred after massive Bush tax cuts. Just a reminder.

While it is entirely correct

While it is entirely correct that the time of the greatest, and most evenly-distributed, prosperity was at a time when the top marginal rate was 93% (I hope everyone here understands what is meant by a marginal tax rate), it should not be forgotten that this was during the 1950s, at which time the US was, for all intents and purposes, the only major economy left standing after WWII.

This isn't meant as a criticism of the progressiveness of the tax system under Eisenhower, but it is a matter of historical fact.

-Z

It's okay

You are correct, Zorro. We were not the only major economy, but really the only economy with a significant industrial capability.

We will never see a 93% tax rate again. And, that is a very good thing.

Still, history argues the rich should be paying more

50% probably makes sense right now.

This John Cole graph shows how the top rate has varied over time.



As Yglesias noted when he used the graph last March:

And yes, please pay no attention to the fact that the three periods of ultra-low taxes were followed by a budget crisis (Reagan) and catastrophic global economic collapse (Coolidge-Hoover, Bush).

Return to progressivity

If you look back over the past ~40 years, you'll see consistent a consistent decrease in the progressivity of our income tax structure. Today, the tax structure is virtually flat compared to historical patterns (note that the income tax was not introduced until the 16th Amendment of 1913). There is a strong correlation between the increasingly-flat nature of our income tax + the vanishing American middle class.

If you want a country with comparatively few ultra-rich people, few middle class ones, and a huge glut of poor, then, by all means, continue to reduce the top marginal tax rate. Please note, though, that the above is a perfect formula for revolution.

If, on the other hand, you see the powerful American middle class of the middle-to-late 20th century as representing a worthy goal, then hike the highest marginal rate. Perhaps not to 93%, but absolutely higher than 35% (its current level). Why not 50%, where it was for most of St. Ronnie's administration?

-Z

most people

who work for themselves or are ind contractors and are in the top bracket set up an llc and either a) pay themselves a small salary and the rest in stock options , which when they cash out of, pay the cap gains rate or b) pay themselves a small salary and put the rest in a c corp which delays tax payments on a max 180k a year till age 65. i would prefer a top rate of 45 but if 50 eventually comes to pass it would presently only catch employees. what do people think is the optimal capital gains rate?

comment threads are so funny

I always find it really interesting when huge conversations get started that are mostly tangential to a post. It's kind of cool really. I honestly thought I'd get torn into for not being pro-choice enough in writing this... instead, we're talking tax codes and consumerism. Pretty interesting.

---
This Too Will Pass, for the guts in your cerebrum.

Actually your post was in large part about consumerism

although mainly you used that discussion to illustrate another point. But since I had a major role in hijacking your main point, I ought to, better late than never, really respond to it. In short I would say this. If all viewpoints had the same zillions of dollars with which to buy their way onto CBS on Superbowl day, I would agree with you that Focus on the (Fake) Family should be able to spew its stuff. But we don't all have the zillions that right wing backed Focus, and GM (our billions) and Doritos, and twelve varieties of tasteless beer, all have. So, first thing, the airwaves should be returned to the people from whom they were stolen in the 1940's during the advent of commercial TV. Then community boards should decide what gets airtime and what doesn't, with the overriding objective being to get as wide a cross range of views on the air as possible. That ought not, however, to include hate speech, although I recognize the difficulty of defining it.

Until that happens, no political advertising should be permitted unless it's paired with any half-sane contrary opinion that's offered. And the identities of the people and/or entities paying for the speech should be fully disclosed.

And that's my 2 cents on your main post.

I'm not an expert on the federal tax code

but I'm all for simplification. And progressivity. Capital gains should be taxed at the same rates as the wages earned through actual work. Or maybe at a higher rate, particularly if we can't bump up the highest marginal rates to 50 or more.

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