- And this blank page where my fingers move
- Pennsylvania Hunger Games Diet: Cash for Corporations, Cuts for Kids
- The Incredible Shrinking Mayor
- Multi-tasking with the 1% … killing the schools AND making the poor pay for their funeral.
- Council Can Give the SRC the Money to NOT Privatize the System
- Predatory Payday Lending Bill Flies Out of Cramped PA House Committee
- Let the Games Begin: PA Senate Announces Details of Budget Proposal
- Good News on PA Revenue But Don’t Count Your Blessings Just Yet
- Defeat Corbett
- Set off without a Paddle: Unpacking the School District’s Disaster Capitalism
Pennsylvania's Competitive Disadvantage
Submitted by Dan U-A on Thu, 02/22/2007 - 10:43am.
We always heard the argument that PA could not raise the minimum wage, because capital could flee over the bridges to New Jersey and Delaware. I am anxious to hear those same calls coming, now that PA is now at another competitive disadvantage:
ASBURY PARK, N.J. - Gay and lesbian couples across New Jersey began claiming their right to the legal benefits of marriage early today in ceremonies that formalized their relationships as civil unions.
The state law establishing civil unions for same-sex couples took effect Monday. But because there is a 72-hour waiting period after applying for a license, most couples had to wait until today to hold civil union ceremonies.
New Jersey is the third state in the nation to offer civil unions, which provide same-sex couples the same legal protections as marriage - but without the same title. Vermont and Connecticut also offer civil unions, and California offers domestic partnerships with benefits similar to civil unions. Massachusetts is the only state to allow same-sex marriages.
In Asbury Park, a shore community being revitalized largely by a growing gay population, two couples were joined in after-midnight ceremonies at a party sponsored by Garden State Equality, a gay rights advocacy group.
We need to grow PA, and, certainly don't want to scare away middle income people. So, if Delaware passes a civil unions bill, I expect those who care about growing the PA economy will make sure a civil unions bill goes flying through the legislature. Because, yeah, capital can flee. But so can people who want to be recognized by their own government as having basic, fundamental rights.
I am curious if there has
I am curious if there has been information gathering done on this.
Are there any legitimate numbers from polling the gay community with a question of "if a neighboring state allowed civil unions and your state doesn't, would you move across the border to acknowledge your partner"? Also, to be fair, they should normalize on people living within 60 minutes of the border to only really include people that wouldn't be forced to change jobs to do it.
I would be curious to see what the information would be.
Good question
If it were me, and I could get married in New Jersey and couldn't in PA, as long as it weren't a huge inconvenience as far as job and lifestyle were concerned, I think I would make the move. However, there are many more variables that come into play when deciding where to live...every place has pluses and minuses. This would be a plus for NJ and a minus for PA and Philadelphia.
The Brookings Institute did a study
The Brookings Institute did a study on gay people and economic development>
Paul varnell wrote an article on it years ago - here's the article & links to the article & the study.
====================================================
Gays and Economic Development
by Paul Varnell
Originally appeared July 4, 2001, in the Chicago Free Press.
IF YOU ARE A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL who wants to promote business and economic development in your city or region, particularly high technology development, the most important thing you can do is create conditions that attract a large number of gays.
That is the fascinating conclusion of a new study, "Technology and Tolerance: The importance of Diversity to High-Technology Growth" by Richard Florida and Gary Gates, published in June by the Brookings Institution.
The argument is relatively simple and straightforward.
Although gay men are disproportionately employed in high-tech industries, gays themselves do not necessarily directly cause high tech business development.
But rather, the presence of gays in an urban area is the most reliable measure, the most sensitive barometer, of an open-minded and creative social atmosphere that draws the highly talented people high tech companies typically seek as employees:
"They (gays) signal a diverse and progressive environment that fosters the creativity and innovation necessary for success in high tech industry."
Thus, alluding to the old coal miners' practice of taking a canary along into a coal mine because of its high sensitivity to toxic coal gases, Florida and Gates call gays "the canaries of the knowledge economy."
Secondarily, because gays often have the disposable income to take advantage of recreational and entertainment offerings and migrate to where they are available, the presence of gays provides a good indicator for the existence of a broad spectrum of lifestyle amenities attractive to other adults.
These observations have an obvious intuitive appeal once you think about them, but is there any way to test them empirically?
There is.
Using 1990 census data on the number of same-sex partners, Florida and Gates developed a "Gay Index" that measured the over or under-representation of gay male couples in an urban area relative to the area's overall population.
Then they compared those figures to a Milken Institute Index designed to measure high-tech industry concentration and growth.
What they found was that urban areas with a high proportion of gays were heavily represented among areas with a high tech business concentration:
The five urban areas with the highest concentration of gay couples were all among the nation's top 15 high-technology areas: San Francisco/San Jose, Washington, Austin (Texas), Atlanta, and San Diego.
And 11 of the top 15 high-technology areas also appeared in the 15 urban areas with the highest proportion of gays.
Further, "Gays not only predict the concentration of high-tech industry, they are also a predictor of its growth. Five of the cities that rank in the top ten for high-technology growth from 1990 to 1998 rank in the top ten for the Gay Index."
Although Florida and Gates agree that some connection between gays and high tech presence may result from their over-representation in the industry, they wryly comment, "it seems difficult to explain how their over-representation would predict (high tech) growth.
"To do so," the observe, "would be to suggest that gays and lesbians are somehow on average more productive or entrepreneurial than their heterosexual counterparts."
Although they relegate this comment to a footnote, they pointedly they say nothing to rule it out as a contributing factor.
Florida and Gates report that they looked at a number of other factors traditionally considered to draw a talented labor pool including climate, professional sports teams, arts and culture, etc., but found only loose correlations with those.
But three "diversity" indexes were far better correlates of high tech presence — the Gay Index, a "Bohemian Index" of writers, artists, and other creative types, and a "Foreign Born" Index.
Of these "the Gay Index does better than other individual measures of social and cultural diversity as a predictor of high-tech location."
Florida and Gates reason as follows:
People in technology businesses are drawn to places known for a diversity of thought and open-mindedness as indicated by their ethnic and social diversity. It is this talented labor pool that draws high tech companies and stimulates high tech growth.
They quote Hewlett Packard CEO Carly Fiorina who told a conference of state governors, "Keep your tax incentives and highway interchanges. We will go where the highly skilled people are."
Accordingly, Florida and Gates say, cities must begin to combine their goal of providing a better business environment with strategies aimed at improving their diversity and tolerance.
As an example of what they recommend, they cite Austin, Texas, Mayor Kirk Watson who explained, "Austin has benefited from a convergence between technology and our laid back, progressive, creative lifestyle, and music scene. ...
"The key is that we continue to preserve the lifestyle and diversity which enables us to lure companies and people from places like Silicon Valley."
Gary Gates says that he and Florida expect to have a report completed by the end of the summer comparing the 1990 and 2000 census figures.
On the Web: Brookings Institution: "Technology and Tolerance"
Editor's Note: As of March 2002, Gates informed me that the paper examining high technology, diversity, human capital, and employment growth from 1990 to 2000 is still in process. We will add a further note here when it becomes available.
http://www.indegayforum.org/news/show/27142.html
http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/floridaexsum.htm
Hmm. The study seems pretty
Hmm. The study seems pretty specific to the tech sector though. Which I could understand that people in the tech sector tend to be more forward thinking and open to change, which mimics the gay community. I don't think it really says anything too much outside of it. So, it may have been a self propogating environment. Tech industry started up in more "open" areas like California, which had a bit higher concentration of gay community. As the tech sector started booming, people migrate where work is and in particular gay communities developed more, which happened to be around the tech sectors, which would draw more on locals for employment, etc.
If anything, the article seems to say more about the tech sector than the gay community. They seem to be alluding to the fact that since the tech sector IS so much more open, it has done better because they get the educated "non-standard" demographic ... ie, gay, foreign, artistic, etc. because they have more possible barriers in other sectors.
I agree with you Adam. I
I agree with you Adam. I think that the article is pushing the issue a little too much. It’s a sort of Chicken and Egg problem. Do Techies follow Gays or do Gays follow techies? Or, do they both just follow the same things. I think that they both just follow the same things.
We must also note something about the cities cited. San Francisco/San Jose, Washington, and Austin (Texas) have some of the best computer science schools in the world, Namely Stanford, Berkley, Cal Tech, University of Washington, and University of Texas at Austin. Atlanta, and San Diego have never been known has hotbeads of technology, despite what this article says. Also, Boston and Raleigh Durum were not mentioned as having a big Gay population, but the are in the top five tech cities.
Understand that friends come and go, but with a precious few you should hold on. Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and lifestyle, because the older you get, the more you need the people who knew you when you were young. ~ Mary Schmich
That link was bad - here's a
That link was bad - here's a link to the study. Many of the cities you mention are included in the charts.
http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/techtol.pdf
I think if one is looking for a study that directly reviews the economic effects of marriage equality - you're not going to find something definitive since it hasn't been in existence in this country long enough to have retrospective data.
But - common sense syas that if you want to attract those types of high wage, high talent setors - you look to the conditions that upported their generation.
Perhaps could look towards the experience of states that have passed other types of anti-civil rights intiatives based upon sexual orientation - not sure if those are available. But - there certainly are reports of Fortune 500 companies and others leaving areas or not considering moving there due to their employee diversity policies not being refelected locally - or in some cases - I think domestic partner benefits - being outlawed in areas. Transferring people to those areas would be problematic.
Well, I was more curious if
Well, I was more curious if there was a study that polled interest of gays leaving a neighboring state, uprooting, because of legalized marriage.
Let's talk solutions
It's all well and good to point out how NJ has a leg up on Phily, but what practically can be done? The PA Legislature has to repeal a state DOMA law before it can even begin to consider extending marriage or same-sex partner benefits to Pennsylvanians.
So, the question becomes what can Philadelphia--ie the Mayor and Council and possibly local judges--do?
In the Liberty City/Outfront questionnaire, we will be asking the candidates to tell us where they stand on the following:
-fighting once again to exempt the Philadelphia portion of transfer tax for same-sex couples
-extending the current Domestic Partnership law to cover city contractees.
Then, most importantly, we are asking candidates how they will interact with Harrisburg--how will they make the Philadelphia legislative delegation MOVE on issues?
Maybe Rue or Micah or Charlie can jump in here...(hint)
On a personal note
I am pretty hard-core Philadelphian. I live 6 houses away from my Dad who lives 10 blocks away from where he grew up in a house 1 block from the houses both his mother and father lived in.
BUT, when Joel and I have kids, moving to Collingswood will be something we think about very carefully.
It would break my heart,literally, to leave the city, but I can't risk raising kids in a state where the legislature seriously considers bills to strip second parent adoption rights. So, if you are listening PA leg, you got about 3-5 years before I start popping 'em out--so get hustling!
This answer freaks me out,
This answer freaks me out, and should worry State policy makers.
When we potentially scare away people who not only are born and raised here, but who are deeply committed to the City, we should all be a little freaked out.
It is a very specific article.
However, I pulled these stats from Percy Walker's blog. I have no proof or sources for these numbers aside from Mr. Walker's blog: http://percywalker.com/2006/11/15/percys-big-gay-economic-development-pl...
Fact: 25% of billionaires are gay* (in whole or part).
Fact: 27% of hedge fund managers are gay (in whole or part).
Fact: 54% of adult gays are college grads (compared with 28% of the general population).
Fact: The average income of adult gays is $53,500 (compared with $32,000 for the general population).
He recommends Greensboro aggressively target the gay population as an economic strategy, part of which mentions the dearth of civil union states.
Regardless of your opinion on this article, I think it would be in the city's interest to continue to target high-tech and tertiary level industries. These next level industries are critical for the economic future of the city.
how do you define gay?
The problem with any stats on LGBT people is that they are based on people being out or not. So I question the "54% of adult gays are college grads" figure or the income one.
i don't mean that to tear you down Charles, but more to point to the bigger problem with a "gay competitiveness" discussion.
Happy...
Just kidding, I would assume that for the purposes of the original question of this thread as well as any sort of gay competitiveness discussion, that the definition would be people who are out. I would further assume, but don't know for sure, that people who are not out would have less interest in the status of civil unions in their area.
As to the stats, again, I assume the area would want to target people who are represented by those stats which would mean they are out...at least enough to respond affirmatively to a survey on the subject.
I dont' know of any studies
I think a previous poster was right that there hasn't been time for studies yet, but I can speak to at least a few couples that I know, just in the Philly area, who moved to NJ within the last 3 years, even *before* civil unions, because it was more supportive of gay rights (i.e., allowing them to look after one another as they aged). One set was lawyers, the other doctors. I can't imagine they're alone.
acm
I mean, it's be cool if
I mean, it's be cool if there were economic advantages to attracting LGBT folks. It's important to remember that we should do this because it's the right thing to do.
---
http://benwaxman.com
Money talks, but it can't sing and dance
I'd think everyone here agrees that it's the right thing to do. However, many people in this Commonwealth do not. Many don't care one way or the other. For these people, economic arguments might be persuasive.
----
I support Michael Nutter for Mayor.
Same-Gender Partner Benefits
Hey,
I don't believe the current PA mini-DOMA forbids state Same-Gender Partner Benefits nor Private companies from providing such benefits. I also don't think it would prevent the State from providing Civil Unions or Civil Union-like benefits.
We almost had such a draconian piece of legislation pass the legislature last summer, but through all of our efforts - and a few moderate Senate Rs - we were able to gut the amendment in the Senate Judiciary Committee to include only marriage. It was thereby rendered it too weak for the right-wing Rs in the House who wanted marriage and civil unions/domestic partnership to be the monopoly of heteros only.
The Governor (with some union help) has been pushing PA state employees same-gender partner benefits, but he was thwarted by the Republican controlled Senate and formerly powerful right-wing Reps in the House who threatened a lawsuit if it passed the PEBTF Board. One way of doing this is to get the unions to include them in their contracts - though some of the more rabid homophobes might try and scuttle the budget - but they probably wouldn't vote for it anyway.
I think trying to push for the same-gender realty transfer tax might be difficult since it was removed as a benefit by, I believe, the PA Superior Court. Fortunately they upheld the rest of Philly's same-gender benefits.
Thanks, AM
Minimum Wage Disadvantage
It might not speak to the larger point about civil unions, but it's worth noting that raising the minimum wage in many cases doesn't actually put capital at the disadvantage that you would think. What employers lose in extra wages they gain in increased competition for jobs, longer retention rates, and higher productivity. In other words, if Philadelphia/Pennsylvania raises its minimum wage above the minimum in Delaware, it's much more likely workers will pour across the river into Pennsylvania for jobs than capital going the other direction. (At least, they would if it weren't for the wage tax... but Pennsylvania as a whole stands to do well.)
The NYT had a great article about this phenomenon on the Washington/Idaho border last year.
The larger point -- and this speaks to all of the invocations of Florida, et al. -- is that it's much more important for businesses to find, attract, and retain good workers, whether they're blue-collar or white-collar, then it is for them to move shop to save a dollar an hour. And while there's a lot of inflexibility in the labor marker, workers are still more mobile than most businesses.