Philadelphia Nieghborhood Alliance and Fumo's Friend of Court Brief

I usually do not post press releases, but us at the PNA have issued this release related to Senator Fumo's friend of the court brief in the most recent Sugarhouse lawsuit. It kind of shows you where we are in the movement to resite the casinos presently slated for our riverfront. Here it goes:

The Philadelphia Neighborhood Alliance (PNA) supports Senator Fumo's legal filing in the most recent SugarHouse lawsuit filed with the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. The PNA agrees with the Senator’s assessment that SugarHouse's suit is a “bold and aggressive attempt to circumvent the local zoning process that would be at the expense of the public interest.”

Senator Fumo, who authored the state's gaming law, and whose interpretation is therefore persuasive, explained in his filing that “nothing in the [Gaming Act] permits the usurpation of local zoning control.” Furthermore, SugarHouse must realize, gaming is “a privilege” and not an “inherent right” that overrides the City of Philadelphia and, particularly Philadelphia’s City Council.

In his brief, Fumo states "that the gaming legislation clearly states that the primary purpose of the law is to protect the public from the negative impacts of gaming.” The PNA echoes Senator Fumo’s contention that if SugarHouse believes the zoning and regulatory approval process is too burdensome for the proposed site, it is in the public interest for SugarHouse to resite.

"SugarHouse seeks to bypass the vital interests of the public to preserve the quality of life for tens of thousands of residents in the densely populated neighborhoods near the sites of the proposed casinos," said Debbie King of Northern Liberties.

PNA calls on both Foxwoods and SugarHouse and their investors to end the stalemate and work towards finding new locations more than 1500 feet from homes, schools, playgrounds and houses of worship. PNA maintains casinos can be built elsewhere without the loss of jobs or revenue—a contention that has never been disproved.

PNA asks Senator Fumo to use his political capital to support HB1477 which would require the re-siting of both casinos consistent with the 1500 foot buffer between neighborhoods and casinos.

Note: The Philadelphia Neighborhood Alliance was formerly known as the “Delaware River Neighborhood Alliance.”

Is this some kind of joke?

Is this some kind of joke? Really.

No.

We issued the press release over the weekend. No joke.

Why would you think it was a joke?

I notice you live in Whitman. Whitman Council is a part of the PNA, along with Pennsport, whose delegates assisted in the creation of this press release.

As I said to Ray previously, the real battle right now is not whether casinos are coming or not. Rather, it is over re-siting. I have a whole post in my head on this, but right now is not the time to write it.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

really?

Then I guess I have two words for you.

Stockholm syndrome.

Yes.

And, I guess what I can say to you is: please, go to your board and volunteer to be their representative to the DRNA so you can say what you want there. But, countless people in this group are working to move casinos AWAY from YOUR neighborhood. Perhaps a little understanding would be nice. Heck, I don't live in Whitman or Pennsport, but I've cared enough over the last year-year and half, to ensure Foxwoods is built elsewhere. Your welcome.

DRNA, or PNA, has consistently said it is not anti-casino. Unless you've had your head under a rock, I'm not sure how you can miss that.

PNA Mission statement:

The Philadelphia Neighborhood Alliance (PNA) is a coalition of twenty-four groups representing over 250,000+ Philadelphians joined in an effort to protect our communities and support responsible development within our city. DRNA is not anti casino. However, the Alliance universally supports the resiting of Foxwoods and Sugarhouse Casinos because we believe casinos do not belong in anyone’s neighborhood.

DRNA continues to fight for a minimum standard of casino development to be 1500 feet from neighborhoods. We acknowledge that as long as the siting of the two casinos remain at their current location, there will never be a hospitable environment for this development. We recognize that securing this minimum standard at the political level while informing and educating our communities are our immediate goals.

DRNA believes that the residents of Philadelphia are viable parties in the future development of our city and should not be denied the right of self-determination by a state commission in an issue that will profoundly affect their personal assets, livelihoods and their future as residents of this city.

http://www.phillyalliance.org/

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Uh, bad people can do good

Uh, bad people can do good things and vice versa.

I have no doubt that Fumo's stance is motivated, among other things, by the challenge that Ann Dicker is mounting against him. Ann's signature issue has been casinos and Fumo wants to outflank her. Notice that the article in the Inquirer quoted a Fumo spokesperson saying something along the lines of it being a tangible action versus a symbolic one. That's a pretty clear slight towards Anne and the entire anti-casino movement.

---
Check out my website!

Pushing for re-siting is a

Pushing for re-siting is a worthy goal. It's your shilling for Fumo that strikes me as odd. Like I said, stockholm syndrome.

Not shilling.

Posting a press release. That is all.

Again, if you don't like the PNA product, take it up with your civic. This was approved by 24 civics, including your own. PNA is not adverse to thanking politicans when they do good things, just like it isn't adverse to calling them out when they don't.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Worthy

It is the only goal that might happen. Right now, it is more likely than not they will be built, and that they will be built where they are. PNA needs as many people as possible to realize that these casinos can be built on an island in the Delaware river and still generate revenue. The push to re-site is mounting. With the Senator involved, regardless of motivation, we are only helped relative to this goal.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

it doesn't have to be all or nothing

When Fumo does a good thing, he deserves to be praised.
When Fumo does a bad thing, he deserves to be criticized.
He's been known to do both.
Does he deserve to be praised if he is trying to make a bad thing he helped make as good as it can be? I tend to think so.
Calling attention to the fact that Fumo is trying to make this whole Casino thing as reasonable and democratic as it can be does not mean that Gaetano is shilling or even that he likes Fumo. It just means that right now, on this issue, they happen to be complementing each other.

The world need not be so black-and-white.

---
The Russellian Incorporated Innovations Corporation
Lefty Homilies

no, you didn't

You didn't just say "when Fumo does a good thing, he deserves to be praised", did you?

If Fumo wants to send out his press release and have his staff post on this blog all the wonderful things he is doing ti stop bad casino localesn then let them. Why does a so-called "representative from the neighborhood" have to do it? Every time you post something like this, you help a criminal and hurt his opponent, whose signature issue is casinos. And I think you know that and I think that stinks.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Honestly, I shouldn't respond. But, I am reading a deposition and am really, really bored.

I've been working on this issue for many, many months. From time to time, I give updates on this site about where we are on the issue. Last week, I talked with Ray, co-founder of this blog about re-siting. I thought it timely to give an update and this was a good way to do it--with a press release from a group of community organizations. Many prior releases have been critical of Sen. Fumo. Go ahead, look up the website I provided you.

You've been a member for all of 3 hours. I'd suggest doing some research on the issue. YPP is not a vacum, there is context. No one denies Fumo wrote the bill--not even Fumo. The press release says it all.

Again, if you do not like the direction of the PNA, go and talk with your board. Dedicate hundreds of hours of your life to changing the message and trying to resite the casinos. Then, talk. Otherwise, your just background noise trying to make an issue out of nothing.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Mr. Gaetano P. Assuming you

Mr. Gaetano P.

Assuming you live in district and are a registered democrat, if the election were held tomorrow, who would you vote for?

And, when do you plan to post Fumo's opponent's press releases on here?

Relevant, how?

How is this remotely relevant to anything I wrote above? It isn't.

The election isn't tomorrow. The candidates haven't said all they are going to say. Also, the field isn't complete from what I hear. So, how can I make my decision? You can be sure of this, when I excersise my right to vote, it will be for the candidate who will do the most good for the real South Philadelphians.

My work on this issue requires me to have credibility with all sides of the debate, including elected officials. I do not want to prejudice myself or my cause, by declaring allegiance to any candidate where this issue is, as you call it, a primary issue.

Again, like I said, if your not happy with PNA's press release, go and talk to the board at Whitman Council. Become a PNA delegate. Work the long hours. Go to the meetings, giving up your free time. Then, you can influence what the PNA does. Otherwise, the background noise is annoying.

By the way, do you have an opinion on the Sugarhouse lawsuit? Have you read it? Have you read the Senator's amicus brief? Probably not. Those would be good starting points.

As for Anne's press release, you can actually read what she had to say in Saturday's Inquirer. PNA did not get their release out until yesterday, so one thing I wanted to do was get it out there so that people can read it as the press may not pick it up (it being late and all. See, when you work with 24 civics, things take time). But, as I said at the begining, I don't usually post press releases. As it was timely to conversation last week, I thought it relevant.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

You wouldn't be having

You wouldn't be having meetings at all if it weren't for Dicker. And that brief that you celebrate would not be written if it weren't for her. And can you tell me in all serious fashion that the fate of casino sites in Philly hangs on your opinion of who should be senator, Fumo or Dicker? You aren't suffereing from stockholm syndrome. More like delusions of grandure and a bad case of yellow belly. You are a coward and shrill and your answer above proves that.

Right. What about people

Right. What about people like Jethro, Irv, Dan , Rene , and all the other, scores of people who are working their tails off to protect where you live. They do nothing?

Again, come to a meeting. Dedicate your time and effort. Then, talk.

Dicker did not start the PNA. She did come to meetings and was very helpful. Dicker started Casino Free Philadelphia. There is no questioning Anne's work on the issue. I would never do that. In fact, I worked with Anne as one of Casino Free's first lawyers. She recruited me! What you fail to understand is, the release really isn't about that. The issue is PNA's press release and the issue of re-siting. You are making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

You are absolutely ignorant of the law and politics, however. Whether it be Dicker or Fumo, gaming is coming to Philadelphia. The question is where. We have a chance to move it. What are you doing about that? It is likely that the issue will be decided before either were to come back to office. Do you realize that?

Is there anything you want to do about saving your own community save for attacking me you pathetic, arm-chair activist. You call me yellow-belly, but where are you in the fray? Where exactly are you? On your computer?

That's right. No where.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

You were given a chance to

You were given a chance to stand up and support Dicker, the person responsible for this movement and who has courage to take on Fumo, the person responsible for casinos. And you failed to do so. I would be sick if I had to sit across the table from the likes of you. I hope whitman's representative is doing a better job.

He certainly does not have

He certainly does not have the aura of self-importance that you do. You gave me a chance, wow, I guess I should have considered it a bit more, being as you are such an important person.

I'm a pragmatist and know what I have to do to have casinos moved away from your community. Do you? What are you doing about it again? Nothing. Okay. Makes sense.

Oh, just spoke with Anne. It seems she isn't upset at all. So, why are you?

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Berman, a little over the

Berman, a little over the top? First, Gaetano has worked pretty hard on the Casino issue. Second, Anne Dicker, while having done, and continuing to do great work on the Casino stuff, is not 'reponsible' for the anti-casino movement.

Not a vacum.

Please, read these posts so you know what you're talking about. Your ignorance is upsetting me.

http://youngphillypolitics.com/golly_gee_we_love_casinos

http://youngphillypolitics.com/casinos_must_be_city_wide_effort

http://youngphillypolitics.com/exploring_trap_dark_side_el_vez_and_well_...

http://youngphillypolitics.com/my_council_testimony_related_diciccos_cas...

http://youngphillypolitics.com/fruit_poison_tree_council_casino_testimon...

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Fumo, in a minute

I'd vote for Fumo in a minute. He's done some bad stuff but he also has done a lot of great stuff for working people in this city. He's one of the state's most effective legislators and anyone who ousted him would be just another Freshman with no power.

---
The Russellian Incorporated Innovations Corporation
Lefty Homilies

Wow

Gotta say, Brady, as someone who has a lot of respect for your posts here and the work you do, this is pretty shocking, and disappointing.

I understand both sides.

Brady's pragmatism and your disappointment. These conflicting thoughts are how many South Philadelphians feel. I outlined that in a post a few months ago. I say South Philadelphians because so much has been done down there by the Senator (good and, allegdly bad) versus the remainder of the district.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

I get that,

But the parochial, protective, "he gets things done for us" mentality is exactly what allows a poorly functioning "machine" to keep a stranglehold on this city. From casinos to convention centers to stadia, certain constituancies are rewarded while the city, as a whole, is caught in an eddy at the bottom of a toilet.

I thought we outlawed the

I thought we outlawed the term stadia.

In honor of Stan

I saw that he was online today.

We did.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

I get that too, but . . .

Where I come from, when you're kid is having trouble at a poorly performing school and you want him to go elsewhere, you call Sen. Fumo's office. When you're street's stop sign is down, you call Sen. Fumo's office. When you need legal help and can't find a lawyer, you call Sen. Fumo's office. When your civic/charter school/public school/recreation center/community center, etc., need a grant to cover expenses, you call Sen. Fumo's office. When your heating bill is too high, you call Sen. Fumo's office. You can call other people, but they typically do not help.

I don't necessarily agree with it either, but politicans who take care of their constituents are thanked at the polls. It is the way it is.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

So...

If you need a trivial task that city services are supposed to perform as part of their job, a legislative power-broker can get that done for you?

This is why nobody understands how this city works.

Luckily for me, I was raised Catholic, so the whole structure comes to me intuitively.

--Tim

Sort of.

Except for the funding things.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Actually lots of people understand how the city works

which is one of the reasons is it so hard to change it. The people for whom the machine works are well organized and, at least with regard to their particular goals, well served by the machine. And, as Gaetano shows us, they understand how it works.

The people for whom the machine does not work...and particularly the working class and poor African Americans whose representatives often don't do much of them, also understand how the machine works. And they cheered me when I denounced.

But they are not organized by anyone, are very difficult for progressives to organize for a variety of reasons, and consequently don't vote at high rates or when they do vote, often support the ward politicians who do little for them, partly because there is no other game in town and partly because of appeals based on race.

I guess I'm less fatalistic than you

I like to think that's something that will change. You and I have been down this road before, methinks.

Further, as someone who remembers quite a bit about what "where I come from" meant when it was said by someone from South Philly when Rizzo was mayor, I'm a lot less sanguine about that mentality.

What disappoints me most about Philadelphia politics

I moved to Philadelphia from Chicago, and what disappointed me most about Philadelphia politics when I first came is its shortsightedness and lack of imagination -- not just in the politics and the plans for the city's present and future, but even in the corruption!

I mean, Tony Mariano? Selling his office, losing his job, threatening suicide and going to jail over a few K$ in credit card debt? It boggles the mind. In Chicago, a politician in Mariano's position would have had millions. And he would have still been beaten by someone else just as corrupt, but who would have been better at it and STILL done more for his district.

The only reason why Fumo has any support in Philadelphia is that the rest of its politicians, corrupt or honest, have been terrible, carving up slices of a smaller and smaller pie. Fumo throws the city more scraps than anyone else, which makes him a hero. Give me some real Daley machine archcriminals any day.

--Tim

It is Rick Mariano.

It is Rick Mariano.

But no, the worst part about Fumo is that he is not just some politician delivering scraps. He is actually effin brilliant (as he will surely tell you). And his staff is huge, well paid, and well regarded, making him even more effective.

He is also bizarrely greedy, with about 145 percent too much hubris, and that will be what brings him down.

Tony Mariano

That guy on the HBO TV show, right?

And see? Now you've replied

And see? Now you've replied to me, I can't edit my mistake.

Tony Mariano is either a quarterback from the 80s or a character from the West Wing. I can't remember.

I do think that Fumo is the best in Philly. I guess it bothers me that the ceiling, even for corruption is so low. Chicago filled me with a bizarre sense of pride at how big-city machine politics could work; I'd always thought that Detroit was the backwards exception rather than the rule.

--Tim

I could fix it, but, that

I could fix it, but, that just wouldn't be fun.

Was he the Congressman on the West Wing played by . . .

John Goodman?

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Actually, it's "Tony Marino."

No, it was Mike Starr, a big Italian actor, who was in Goodfellas and Miller's Crossing and lots of other good stuff. He played a Philadelphia Senator who'd been beat in an election, Toby wanted to call a lame duck session so he could vote on a missile treaty or something he'd introduced, and Marino refused on principle, since the voters had elected someone else.

In other words, a well-meaning liberal fantasy, like every other episode of the West Wing. What a beautiful dream.

--Tim

Why did I think it was John Goodman?

You're right though.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

John Goodman

played the Speaker of the House that took over when the President stepped aside during his daughter's kidnapping....God i feel like a nerd....

Jumped the Shark

That is correct. And, it is after that I stopped watching the WW--I thought they jumped the shark.

Though, I still consider the first 3 seasons the best show ever. The only show close for me is the Wire.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Fumo's achievements and his politics.

I've been meaning to write something about Senator Fumo for a long time because he is one of the two most fascinating late 20th centry urban politicians I've seen in action. (The other was Kevin White, a three term Mayor of Boston.)

This is not that post...and it may take me a while to get to write the whole thing. But since Dan opend the door a bit...

On an issue I have worked on for years, public transit, Senator Fumo was indispensible. You call recall how at the end of the last session, Governor Rendell and Rep. Evans were insisting that there would be no budget deal without funding for public transit. But no one had found a way to raise the funds.

Senator Fumo did.

Selling bonds in anticipation of tolling I-80 and raising tolls on the Turnpike was a stroke of genius. It enabled the state to find money for transit (and roads and bridges) without raising taxes, which was anathema to all the Republicans in both houses for ideological reasons and not a few Democrats becaue they did not want to run for reelection having voted for a tax increase.

One element that made the plan particularly appealing to some politicians, I belive, was that it headed off Rendell's plan to sell the turnpike. Now why would politicians care about selling the Turnpike? One reason is taht, from top (the Turnpike Commission) to bottom (the toll takers), the Turnpike is a massive pit of patronage. Whenever an important office holder or party official loses an election and needs a well paid sinecure, the Turnpike Commission looks awfully nice. Whenever some ne'er do well friend of a friend of a politician needs a job, the first place the pol looks is the Turnpike tolltakers. Almost anyone can take tolls, after all. It actually is not an easy jobs, I should say. But it is not exactly a high skill job. And, partly because it is a unionized job, it pays well. And thus the relevant union, AFSMCE I believe, was happy to see Rendell's plan blocked.

Selling bonds in anticipation of revenues is also an important part of the transaction. Anytime the government sells bonds, some bond lawyers and bankers make a lot of money. And some of that money flows back into the system in the form of campaign contributions. The politician who can help direct where those contributions go, can be an influential play in a legislature and thereby help enact legislation that might otherwise be stalled.

Moreover, when the government sells bonds backed by tolls on a road (or bridge), it becomes more difficult for the government to sell that asset. That makes it even harder for this or some future governor to carry out the plan to sell the Turnpike. And that's a good thing not only for the pols and unions who like the Turnpike the way it is but because selling the Turnpike is, for lots of reasons I won't go into here, very bad public policy. (Anyone who has read chapter in The Power Broker on how Robert Moses used the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority's bond covenants to keep Triborough in operation long after the brige was paid for should recognize this maneuver.)

On top of all this, Senator Fumo arranged for a much larger portion of sales tax revenues to turned over to public transit and for the $75 million cap on these funds to be removed. I'm still not sure how he did that, but there is a rumor that not everyone in the room at the time this deal was made understood the implications of some details in the legislation Fumo was proposing. (If you have read the chapter in the Power Broker called "the best bill drafter in Albany, you know how this sort of thing is done.)

Now we progressive are not supposed to like this kind of politics. We like everything to be done out in the open and in a transparant fashion. We don't like patronage and we don't like businessmen or lawyers or bankers who make money off the government giving campaign contributions. The deepest question for the progressive movement however is whether we can attain the substantive goals we seek--things like substantial new dedicated and inflation proof funding for transit and a roadblock in the path of selling the Turnpike--without the kind of politics Senator Fumo practices, better than anyone else in the state. We would have to build the kind of organization and a degree of citizen engagement involvement that is far greater than anything we progressives have managed to create so far. And we would have to learn to deploy that organization in a focused way.

That is the challenge for anyone who wants to replace Senator Fumo's kind of politics.

Not that exactly

The thing is, the legislative virtuosity you just described isn't what I think anyone here finds particularly objectionable about Vince Fumo. It's what looks like kickbacks from lawyers doing gov't work, aides and donors doing property work, and (particularly objectionable for me) skimming off of the charities and nonprofits that are supposed to be part of the benificence he brings back to his constituents. And, at the legislative level, there are things like the casino legislation, part of which even he seems to be trying to walk back (and where his bill drafting craft seems to have failed him).

Maybe all of these things help Fumo have some kind of insight into his fellow politicians. But why can't we have the one without the other?

--Tim

Different Takes on Senator Fumo

You don't have any problems with patronage and campaign contributions coming from lawyers who do bond work with the state?

When I look at the world in terms of the political ideals I'd like to see realized in it in so far as that is possible, those things trouble me. I'd like to live in a world in which we are governed more by democratic debate over issues and good arguments than one in which one politician can develop a powerful political machine by the skillful use of campaign contributions and patronage. I recognize that the ideal is impossible to realize entirely and that patronage and contributions will always be with us. (And I point out in the longer essay from which I drew my post on Senator Fumo, there might actually be good theoretical reasons not to want a political community that totally fits the ideals.) But as progressive I'd like to see us tilt more to the ideal than we do now.

I am frankly much less troubled by the accusations against Senator Fumo--and for now, they are just accusations. When someone asked me during my campaign whether Senator Fumo deserves to be in jail I said, "He deserves a fair trial." and I still think that is the right answer.

What is interesting about these accusations is that they have had absolutely no relevevance Senator Fumo's political conduct. He has not been accused of taking money in order to change his vote or to arrange a political deal of some kind. All these accusations are about personal corruption not political corruption.

It is not that I think it is OK for a government official to use public funds for his own purposes. And it is certainly true that you can be a legislative genius without doing so. Using public funds for your own purposes is and should be illegal and someone who is convicted of such a crime in a fair trial deserves to be punished. It is the equivalent of corporate executives using their expense account for their own gain with, of course the different that the corporate executives rip off their stock holders and public officials rip us off. It is, as I said, deserving of punishment. But that sort of thing is much less of a threat to the integrity of our politics than many other things politicians do, including many things they do that are now but should not be legal.

I think I covered that one

It's what looks like kickbacks from lawyers doing gov't work

Skimming off of nonprofits bothers me a lot, not least because it seems to be the most widespread and pernicious practice of Philadelphia politicians. If half of the CDCs and other nonprofit groups, charities, etc. were actually devoted to developing their communities and fulfilling their mission rather than orchestrating cons large and small, the city would be in markedly better shape. That hurts us all where we live.

--Tim

Yes you did

but your amplification of the point is helpful.This is a a serious problem in our city.

The legislative basis for Senator Fumo's suit

I can't resist pointing out that if Senator Fumo had been successful last year in his effort to take away the city's right to zone the casinos, there would be no basis for his suit.

The legislative record clearly shows however, that under a great deal of pressure from citizens of Philadlephia, who faxed their legislators after receiving a massive email barrage sent out by Ed Goppelt, me and a bunch of other folks, that language was pulled from the bill.

I am confused at how Mr.

I am confused at how Mr. Steir can praise Fumo after all that he's taken from us. Steir and others ran well because of what Dicker stood for. Now, you abandon the principles. Very sad.

What?

Berman, what is your angle exactly?

Marc simply said that citizen pressure is what caused Fumo to sue. That's not exactly praise.

---
Check out my website!

Please read a little more carefully

I'm trying to explain the kind of commitment it is going to take to change politics in this city. It is going to take movement that none of us have been able to build so far.

And I'm also tryign to flesh out the points made above by Dan and Gaetano, that many people support Senator Fumo because he has been an effective Senator, for good in his work on transit funding and, for bad in his work on casinos.

If we progressive are going to rise to political power in Philadelphia, we are going to have to understand the political system as it is today. Politics is not just a matter of heroes and villains and if we ignore how it works we will accomplish nothing. And if you want to understand our politics, you have to understand how Senator Fumo has accomplished things, whether you agree with his goals--as I have done sometimes--or not--as I have done other times. And you also have to understand how we have influenced Senator Fumo as we have done in the past and might do in the future.

Finally, I want to add that while I have worked closely with Anne and supported her when she ran for State Representative, progressives ran well, to the extent we did, because of the work we have all done in developing progressive principles and policies about many issues, including casinos. Matt Ruben and I and, among those who have not been candidates, Stan Shapiro, Hannah Miller, and Ray Murphy have done as much as anyone else to develop the ideas and principles that animate this movement.

Mark, with all due respect

You don't speak for all "progressives." And while I agree that it is important to understand what Fumo does and doesn't do as a politician, your summary of the problem leaves out the aspect of Fumo's political role that most troubles me.

The deepest question for the progressive movement however is whether we can attain the substantive goals we seek--things like substantial new dedicated and inflation proof funding for transit and a roadblock in the path of selling the Turnpike--without the kind of politics Senator Fumo practices, better than anyone else in the state.

What you leave out in that statement about the "deepest" question for progressives, is the pernicious effect that "politics as usual" has had in this city over the long-term. That is, in fact, the deepest question for me. And the way that you miss that also speaks to why I was so disappointed to see you align yourself with Brady during your campaign. Fumo, like Brady, is very much linked to a system which leaves certain segments of our citizenry poorly served. And I don't want to be unrealistic about the sausag making of politics, but I also don't see how it can be progressive to not draw clear lines of distinction between "us" and "them" in this regard.

No doubt, Fumo, like Brady, has done some good things for certain constituencies, and even some things that are good for the city as a whole. But they're always motivated by the goal goal of consolidating political power; and in the aggregate, we have been handed the short end of the stick for a very long time by the political machine to which Fumo and Brady are so inextricably linked. Some constituencies get some love here and there, and the larger community gets some love on occassion, but in the end we get a massive system of pay-to-play, corporate sellouts like the stadiums and the Convention Center and casinos, and sadly little in the way of progressive initiatives.

I don't think we are disagreeing, DE,

and if I haven't made that clear, I'm sorry.

I spent five months of my life going around the city saying that politics is broken in Philadelphia and detailing on my blog and in my speeches just how politics as usual has, as you say, has pernicious long term effects on this city. In fact, I think I've spelled that out in as much detail as anyone in the progressive movement. Some other candidates running as progressives in fact criticized me for presenting too radical an analysis of our politics.

But the point I'm making in the post above is that we can't just criticize politics as it is today, we need to provide an alternative that can accomplish the substantive goals we seek.

We have two problems, as I see it,

The first, to which Ray Murphy and I have pointed many times, is that we simply don't have the organization on the ground we need to win elections. And it is very difficult to build organizations in many parts of the city, especially those that are ill-served by politics as usual

The second, is in some ways, even more difficult. We have to figure out a way to convert whatever organization we have into a force that can make public policy. We progressives are not united on all things, as anyone who reads YPP can see. Nor are we united in the candidates we support as anyone can see from the council at large race. How, then, do we turn, whatever organization we can develop into agreement on public policy? And while we are building our power, while we are just one faction among many in the city, how do we stay united enough to negotiate with the other factions, both to win elections and to change public policy. How, in other words, do we build power?

This is enormously difficult. One way to see the extent of the problem is to look at the best book I've ever read on American politics. James S. Young’s The Washington Community, 1800-1828. It explores the near collapse of the US government during the war of 1812 in the second administration of Madison. And it shows that the US government, which in many ways was quite a pure regime in which ideological and regional interests were primary and self-interested behavior by politicians relatively unimportant, almost collapsed because of those ideological and regional differences. And it was not as if those differences were really so great. The amount of heat and anger around the Bank of United States was far greater than any impact the Bank could have had. But in the absence of other disputes, relatively minor differences loomed larger and larger in the minds of politicians and ideologues. (Compare this to the kinds of disagreements we have here sometimes about, for example, whether to build a new university or expand Temple or about whether we should focus economic development policy on those who already live in Philadelphia or try to recruit new Philadelphians.) That is to say, a politics based on ideas tends to lead to all kinds of splitting and division. And that makes it very difficult to create the agreement necessary to make public policy

According to Young, what saved our political system and constitution was the election of Andrew Jackson. Jacksonian Democracy brought three things to our politics than united the Democratic Party and enabled it to rule successfully. The first was an expansion of presidential power that was based on Jackson's ability to claim a popular mandate and his charisma. The second was patronage, as Jacksonian Democracy was partly held together by the political machine created by Martin Van Buren in New York and elsewhere. And the third was money as the popular campaign Jackson ran required, for the first, time, substantial expenditures. The money came, in part from the state banks that were looking for Jackson to help them by doing away with the Bank of the United States.

So a fairly pure democracy in which the people’s body, the legislature, was dominant became a less pure democracy in which a strong individual set the direction of the country and did so by gaining support in congress not just on the basis of his ideas, but with his charisma, mandate, and control of patronage and money.

The kind of politics we both dislike in Philadelphia didn’t happen by accident. It developed because it was functional for at least some people. As I said, I don’t like the role that money and patronage plays in our system. And the long term consequences of this system is that, as I said in my campaign, our politicians do not focus on the common good and do not adopt innovative public policies. Instead they fight over the spoils. It is thus enormously difficult to change the political direction of the city. But when a brilliant legislator has some control over money and patronage, he can make good—and bad—things happen. We shall soon see whether a strong Mayor can make good things happen and how much distance he can put between himself and politics as usual while still remaining effective.

The question for progressives, then, is how to build an organization that not only has a mass base—which we are very far from right now—but that is also unified enough to actually rule—and we are a long way from that—without adopting the tools of patronage and money.

Those are the two challenges I see for the progressive movement.

As for Bob Brady, I consider him a friend but I didn’t endorse him or any other Mayoral candidate during the campaign. Like the rest of the progressive running for council I sought some help from all of the mayoral candidates and from one or another of the factions in the city and got some here or there but, clearly given the result, not as much as I had hoped for. I thought that progressive might have figured out a way to work between the factions to elect a few folks to Council. But that was very difficult, in no small part because in the at-large race many of us were running against each other and because candidates in the district races facved very different circumstances than candidates in the at-large races. I'm trying to think through what we can do to avoid these problems in the future, which is one reason I'm thinking so much now about how to build our base and how to create some unity within the progressive movement. Right now I have a lot more questions than answers.

ye gods! i agree with marc!

The question for progressives, then, is how to build an organization that not only has a mass base—which we are very far from right now—but that is also unified enough to actually rule—and we are a long way from that—without adopting the tools of patronage and money.

Those are the two challenges I see for the progressive movement.

I just wish someone would bookmark this convo for after the election. It's a very key and central question. My quick contribution is that there are groups, like labor and like MoveOn, that raise lots of small money to do big things. But really, I hope this discussion is till going on after election day cause it's big and I don't want to miss any.

Marc and Ray, together at last

This is an important discussion and it's good to see a little unity going into Election Day!

I agree with Ray and Marc that this is a vitally important discussion. I assume we'll come back to it after today, but I want to say that I'm not sure another organization is the correct answer to these questions. More later.

---
Check out my website!

What's happening?

Ray's agreeing with Mark. Ray has been agreeing with me. Jennifer has been agreeing with me. Rep. Cohen and I are on the same page. Ben and I agree on this. Tim is still anti-nativist.

I'm scared.

That aside: I think there is a false premise related to progressive politics in the City, and that is, if elected to power, they would not seek to consolidate power. Generally, we are talking about super motivated people who want the world to look a certain way. I've always considered that the goal of politics was to lead, but effective leaders also have influence to do things.

I think it is the nature of politics for leaders to want consolidated power, whether the reason is to enact policy that does X or Y or to make change. But, it all involves "friends" being put in places they are helpful.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

I know

And on the college thing, I've been agreeing with Mark Cohen and Ray Murphy (both of whom I almost always argue with) and arguing with Marc Stier (whom I almost always agree with!).

I think that that suggests that at least part of the strength of the progressive movement, at least right now, is that it is about ideas and policies, and much less about the people. If you look at the spats in Philadelphia politics -- say between Bob Brady and John Dougherty, or between various families and alliances in the NW and West Philly, they seem almost totally motivated by personalities and personnel.

Politics is always about the people -- running, staffing, getting elected, filling positions -- but progressives, while ideological, aren't particularly inclined to blood feuds, especially against fellow Dems. Nutter in this respect might be the new model -- he had a long, hard-fought argument with Street, and spats with plenty of other people on particular issues, but he isn't building a machine, and he's perfectly willing to shake hands and make nice. You can see that as either a betrayal of progressive principles or a fulfillment of them -- I'm more inclined to believe the latter.

Also, progressives don't really have the foot soldiers to keep those feuds going. (Except for the Ackelsberg boys. There are like ten of them that nobody knows about, rowing up and down the Schuylkill, like Viking raiders. Don't piss those guys off.)

Of course, this is relatively easy for me to say, because except as a voter/citizen, I don't really have a stake in electoral politics in the city. I don't work for campaigns, and I don't field candidates. I'm happpy to op-ed for candidates and issues, and there are specific projects I'd like to help get started.

I'm a progressive blogger, which is different thing from being a progressive politician, or a progressive political operative. It doesn't mean we don't share many of the same interests (with healthy disagreements too), but we have very different degrees of freedom, tools at our disposal, and intermediate goals. Ultimately, I'm more invested in supporting and being a part of a new group of young citizen/professional journalists than a new group of young (or not-so-young) politicians.

--Tim

Addition by substraction

is what I'm thinking as far as organizations go. We have to do this before we all get ten years older and the then 20 yearolds decide they need to start an organization of their own.

Marc, I really hope that

Marc, I really hope that this post is a joke of some kind that I'm missing.

Maybe the reason that so many younger activists see the need to start new organizations is because the current infrastructure is seriously lacking. The biggest problem is the lack of decent paying jobs with benefits within progressive organizations for younger folks. Speaking as someone who spent a lot of time and energy looking for such a job when I graduated college, I can attest that the opportunities simply do not exist.

The important thing to consider is how jobs working for non-profits and advocacy organizations compare to other jobs sought by college graduates. I did the math and I literally could have made more money waiting tables full-time than working for some groups that I interviewed with. The same is true for all of the folks who work on elections, as Ray, Hannah, and others can attest. I wound up in the private sector (where I'm very happy) partially because of this dynamic.
---
Check out my website!

Yes it is a joke

After all, what distinguishes PFC, NN, and ADA. Organizing models to some extent but also generation and what we drink. (PFC 20-30, beer; NN 35-60, coffee and cheap wine; ADA 60+, fine wine and prune juice.)

In ten years, if this keeps up and the ADAers survive, the new 20 years olds—my daughters generation--will not be comfortable in PFC.

Unless we all get better at intergenerational communication and recognize the usefulness of combining multiple organizing models, we will have four mostly white progressive organizations. (And, of course, we need to focus a great deal on the mostly white problem.)

I’m mainly talking about members, not activists and organizers. As we have talked before, we need to fund young organizers and activists.

I’m going to take this very personally soon. Someone asked 15 year old daughter what she wants to be when she grows up yesterday. She said, “an activist.” I beamed with pride until I realized that means she might never be able to afford to leave home.

I'm a tween

Just shy of 40, like beer and coffee, I don't fit. Darned pigeonholes!!!

Integrate, don't separate! Make Brewerytown Great!

I disagree with him, but it

I disagree with him, but it is a fairy common sentiment. A lot of good people doing a lot of good work are freaked out about the possibility of losing him because he is many times the go-to-guy when your org needs funding.

However, if only a fraction of the indictment is true, he deserves to be in jail, not the legislature.

But, I will say it until I am blue in the face- if Anne or any other challenger is going to win, they are going to have to convince a lot of prominent liberals in the City that losing Fumo's clout will not hurt their organizations and their City.

That is a really good point, Dan.

In terms of institutional support (not party, but other organizational), I can't see that happening without her doing a good job at convincing. This is really a tough race. Heck, running against a 30 year incumbent is tough, but when that person is a Senator with clout and an extensive record, it is even harder.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

fumo should be there at

fumo should be there at every meeting. I am completely unimportant and just someone who will be able to see foxwoods from my front step. I don't know dicker and not working on her campaign but think you do her disservice when you post fumo releases and say things about supporting real south philadelphians. Maybe Dicker is not upset because she's a good person. Stand up for what is right here. Or stand down. You don't help whitman by praising Fumo.

I've helped Whitman a lot, actually.

Dicker attended meetings before she became a candidate. Dicker was very helpful to PNA, and its communities. Fumo attended meetings as an elected official. Rendell has attended meetings. DiCicco has attended a number of meetings (actually, DiCicco enouraged the organization to form).

Point is: there are tons of people working to make sure you don't see Foxwoods from your front step. I'm one of them. PNA has a message that must get out there. There have been times we've been very critical of Fumo. This time, he did something that was good. Thus the press release.

And, I didn't say I'd "support real south philadelphians," I said I'd VOTE for whomever would do the most good for real South Philadelphians. That means the portions of South Philly where I live, and the portions of South Philly that are underserved and impoverished. That could be any candidate. It is a decision I made when I go into the voting booth. Don't mischaracterize what I say, I'm a pretty bright guy and chose my words carefully.

Again, your welcome! As I have stood up for your neighborhood time and time again.

Enjoy sitting on your step tonight, mine will be vacant in favor of another 3 hour PNA meeting.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Just curious

Are there parts of South Philadelphia full of people who aren't real South Philadelphians? Is Queen Village full of mannequins or cardboard cutouts or masquerading Floridians or something?

--Tim

Something like that.

I think that the more gentrified communities have the benefits of a more engaged citizenry (to the extent they even consider those areas South Philly anymore). I am interested to see how the candidates talk to the lifers.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

I disagree.

I disagree. If you're a kid just out of college renting an apartment in Pennsport or Bella Vista or the Graduate Hospital, or a Vietnamese or Mexican or Armenian family living near the market, you usually don't have a clue about local politics. And what happens hurts or helps you as much as it hurts or helps third-generation South Philadelphians

--Tim (skeptical of nativism since 1979)

Well, I'm talking about the

Well, I'm talking about the lawyers and doctors in QV. Not really the Mexicans south of Washington who I'm happy to include in the "real" category. Of course, I'm completely arbitrary.

At least your consistently anti-Nativism.

Will Natives be able to attend your new college?

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

The distinction

Of course. I'm an anti-nativist, not anti-native. And I will always forgive you of everything, Gaetano, especially your arbitrariness.

--Tim

Exactly. REAL south

Exactly. REAL south philadelphians had our taxmoney used to buy 19 orecks and 100 dollar cans of paint for Fumo but since he wrote this brief, Gaetano P can't stand up and call Fumo out. Instead, he distributes Fumos press releases. Wonder where Gaetano P lives because there's nothing real about that south philadelphian.

Puh-lease

I distributed a PNA press release, how thick are you that you don't understand that simple, simple concept.

I've written PNA press releases that have criticized a number of politicians, including Fumo.

Anyway, if you want my bonafides: I split my growing up time between 10th and Tasker, 10th and Ritner, 19th and Snyder and 18th and Ritner (5th grade on). Remember, St. Monica's is the "heart of South Philly!"

I'm a lifer and will likely never leave. So, whatever.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Your refusal to say "I'd

Your refusal to say "I'd vote for Dicker" speaks volumes about your motives for posting Fumo's release. Crooks have supporters too. I understand that and just am surprised that you are one of them. You deserve the government you are given if you don't see the problem with publicizing these attempts to cover his tracks. STAND UP. Change begins now!

Yo

I think you made your point. About 15 posts ago.

What the idiot doesn't get is . . .

It's not Fumo's press release.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Your refusal to understand democracy

is really baffling. In a democracy people aren't forced into a corner and forced to admit who they support.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to a voting booth but they have these curtains there, around this giant box (I believe you do this..."voting" thing behind there?). Anyway, the point is its secret. Gaetano shouldn't have to answer to you or anyone else about whatever decisions he makes.

Further, his refusal to state who he supports (aside from what he already mentioned) could be based on the following:
1) Among other things, he works for a political candidate. People who work for one candidate don't tout their views on other candidates. Its just a bad idea.
2) He works for a civic association. He doesn't want that organization tied to any political candidate. Civic associations usually are non-partisan.
3) This wasn't about Fumo v Dicker v John Doe. This was in support of a move by Fumo to help their organization's goals. Whats the big deal about that? If Rendell had done the same they would have sent out the same release, with a different name.

Fumo doesn't need someone on YPP "shilling" for him. Nor does Anne. Fumo has well established and qualified professionals who handle his media and community relations for him.

And lets not forget, the entire Philadelphia delegation in Harrisburg voted in favor of casinos. Our governor signed the bill. So before you jump down Fumo's throat for the casinos, you might want to reconsider your support of almost every lawmaker in the Philadelphia area, from city council and upwards.

Translation

Fumo doesn't need someone on YPP "shilling" for him. Nor does Anne. Fumo has well established and qualified professionals who handle his media and community relations for him.

Translation =

Fumo pays a lot of money for people to shill for him. No way Gaetano would do it for free.

Hey-If I learned one thing

Hey-If I learned one thing from being a lawyer, my time is, apparently worth something. If I'm not getting paid to shill, I don't shill (with the noted exception of the PNA who takes up much of my time). Trust me, no one is paying me to shill. If so, I'd have to disclose it in accordance with YPP policy.

I am working to elect Larry Farnese to the General Assembly. Unless otherwise expressly stated, this and every comment or blog I post on YPP and any action I take hereon is solely attributable to me and not Farnese or Friends of Farnese

Cowards.

Cowards.

This conversation

is somehow dumb AND cute.

Switzerland was neutral in

Switzerland was neutral in 1939. Neautrality in some instances is akin to being an accomplice. I think that's what we have here. Cowardice disguised as pragmatism. Again, I hope Whitmans representative serves us better than this.

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