- Council Committee Passed the Freeze
- Carol Campbell Passes Away
- My first trip to the public library
- Fight digital exclusion
- What if half of Philadelphia didn't have roads?
- You know, let's not even worry about the City Commissioners office messing up voter registration processing
- Bold ideas to fix the budget
- Mayor Nutter's Town Hall Meeting Schedule
- City Releases Library Information to City Council
- Size of Philadelphia government?
Silence is deafening on Satullo article
Submitted by Agrelou on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 9:26pm.
On Sunday Chris Satullo wrote an article on the unintended consequences of the campaign finance law. http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20070422_Center_Square___Goo-goos_s.... The lack of reaction on this site is deafening. As Jim Kenney warned this is what would happen. The hardest thing to know is the law of unintended consequences.
The article in essence says:
"The real story seems to be that one spendaholic millionaire with minimal public-service credentials can buy himself City Hall with an avalanche of TV ads. Here's the killer for the goo-goos: The other candidates, all serious men of fine résumé, claim they can't fight back because our stupid campaign rules hamstring them.
Say it ain't so, Zack."
As Satullo says to those who worken with Knox "Man up" Tell what you know and don't let this guy buy the election.
Any second thoughts on Jim Kenney's bill?
Bookmark/Search this post with:
Reform of Campaign Finance Reform Should Be Top Priority
I supported either the Kenney or the Evans modification of the Kenney bill. I was stunned when the plug was pulled on Kenney's efforts. Doing that was a serious mistake.
Barring some last minute withdrawals in the interest of allowing a majority of the voters to have a realistic shot at electing someone who has spent his life working for the voters, it is hard to see how front-runner Tom Knox will be derailed.
It appears that Knox's Fall opponent will be Sam Katz, running on both an independent ticket and the Republican ticket. This strategy might have elected Katz in 1999, but Knox will be getting his primary election votes precisely in the areas where Katz got his general election votes. Knox has to be a far stronger candidate than Street in many areas of Philadelphia. It is unlikely that large number of Street supporters will embrace Katz as the stop-Knox candidate.
A Knox-Katz campaign will give the voters a chance to pin the candidates down on where they stand on important issues.
Regardless of who appears likely to win in November, the first order of business other than the budget for City Council should be amending the campaign finance reform law to have a millionaire's exemption: that is, allowing spending limits to go much higher when someone who spends $350,000 or more--or whatever the federal limit has been adjusted to now--is a candidate.
If necessary, City Council should postpone its summer vacation to work on put a millionaire's exemption into the campaign finance reform legislation and work through July and August if necessary to get the job done.
Public offices should be available to those who spend their lives serving the public. There should not be a test of great wealth for whoever holds the position of Mayor of Philadelphia. Few issues are more important than having campaign finance reform that does not establish a test of great wealth as a requirement for becoming mayor of Philadelphia or holding other citywide offices.
Ugh.
Mark, there already is a millionaire's exception under Philadelphia law, which allows fundraising under doubled limits right now, up to $5000 per individual. The federal system allows that number to go up to $6900 for House races if enough is spent.
How much higher does Phila need to go?
Plus Knox would still win
Plus Knox would still win because too many people would vote for him merely because he is the democrat candidate.
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
Available? Sure. Guaranteed? No.
Public offices should be available to those who spend their lives serving the public.
Available as in open? Sure. Available as in guaranteed to? No. That's for the voters to decide. You seem to feel like you're entitled to a long career as an elected official, that it's a full time permanent job. It's not. It's a short term assignment with frequent renewal dates, and the voters have every right to keep their eyes open for better candidates.
And what's it say to you that so many Democratic voters are so fed up with things that someone with little record of public service can do so well? Plenty of millionaires have run and lost. Some of these other candidates have been preparing for this run for years. Evans has been in the mix since '99. Everyone knew Nutter was going to throw his hat into the ring. Rumors have been flying about Fattah for a couple of years now. With all their political resources, all their time building contacts, all their time in the spotlight, they haven't be able to build up enough support to beat back a blitz of TV commercials? And you think that has absolutely nothing to do with how our elected officials have been serving the public for the last several years?
If you think voters are THAT dumb, what the heck are you doing serving in a democracy?
If I were picking my favorite candidate, I'd go with Fattah or Nutter, likely in that order. I'm more than likely going to base my vote on whoever has the best chance to beat Knox, because I don't want him to win. But I can sure as heck understand why so many other voters feel differently.
If I thought this article were worth responding to, I would have
But since you are going to force the point Lou:
All you angry Bradyites blaming Tom Knox on Zack Stalberg is one of the lamest, whiniest things I have ever seen in my life. I don't know who yelled at Satullo, but this is pathetic.
For the last two weeks, I have been as bothered as anyone else by the Tom Knox phenomenon. I was guilt tripped by Councilman Kenney’s post, on this very blog a couple of days ago: “My conscience will be clear.” etc etc
Maybe I should have trusted city council when they wanted to rescind our embryonic campaign finance laws. Maybe I did the wrong thing by sticking to my guns, and saying it’s not okay to let people spend as much money as they want on an election. One of the bloggers here even wrote a millionaire’s amendment to cope with it.
But no way in hell am I going to feel GUILTY
For trying to save the only campaign finance laws
That the city of Philadelphia had ever had
From being destroyed in the first year of their existence
And in the middle of the cycle to which they had been applied!
A lot of people just don't trust city council - not the reasons they give, not a sense that promises won't be broken. This is a major problem not only in philly but all over, as a general anti-government phenomenon.
And it was so unclear what the hell was going on. It’s not like Kenney or any poor oppressed incumbents bothered to explain themselves to any of, to use Ceisler’s term, “the self-styled reformers”.
Did any of them call up 70 and explain why we had to rescind the law?
Did they hold a press conference - did Goode hold a press conference?
Did any of them offer another, alternative reform law that would have made this palatable? (God forbid we really go after nobids!)
Did any of them trot out any of their campaign consultants to the press and talk about doom and gloom? If Kenney were that worried, i can think of a couple who would have said something!
Did any of them call up any of the relevant grassroots groups?
Did any of them act like politicians – talking to the relevant interest groups and explaining why it was necessary to rescind these laws so soon after Wil Goode Jr. wrote them - rather than just going out there and, like massive autocrats, saying,
a. This is just how it’s going to be done,
b. So just put up and shut up?
It's just a credibility gap. A total credibility gap.
And let’s not forget point number two.
2. Tom Knox does not exist because of the people who are trying to change things.
Tom Knox exists because people, when asked in a survey, say they hate City Hall.
Let’s all remember -
Knox could have run on the environment.
Knox could have decided to run as the white guy who understands black folks.
Knox could have run being the guy who was going to bring manufacturing back to the city.
Knox could have run as the guy who was gonna bring us a pennant.
Whatever.
But since Joe Trippi knows how to read polls...
Knox run on...well...disgust at City Hall.
And, um...that kinda worked.
And that part is definitely NOT Zack Stalberg's fault.
Satullo, Stalberg and Miller
This was a quote from Chris satullo, not me.
"The real story seems to be that one spendaholic millionaire with minimal public-service credentials can buy himself City Hall with an avalanche of TV ads. Here's the killer for the goo-goos: The other candidates, all serious men of fine résumé, claim they can't fight back because our stupid campaign rules hamstring them.
Say it ain't so, Zack."
Okay, Lou. Since you brought it up...
I'd like to propose a little exercise.
Take the mayoral candidate of your preference.
Imagine a similar piece written about your candidate, based solely and extensively on off-the-record sources, innuendo, unattributed anecdotes and leaps of logic. (Hey, isn't this how we got into Iraq?) Throw in a heaping pinch of snobbery and a sniff of "Not Our Kind." (Why, he probably doesn't even know the plural of résumé is... résumé! He's not serious!)
Now tell me, with a straight face, that there's nothing wrong with that when it happens to your candidate. Tell me that's the job of the media.
Press secretary, Knox campaign. Blogger on hiatus, former award-winning journalist.
Off the record sources
In light of the Philadelphia Magazine article, those sources are no longer off the record
That has nothing to do with what Satullo wrote.
No one spoke to HIM on the record. You can't use someone else's quotes without attribution. It's called plagiarism.
Press secretary, Knox campaign. Blogger on hiatus, former award-winning journalist.
Hannah and Susan
Hannah Miller and Susan Madrak both going after me. I feel honored.
If the campaign finance limits were lifted so all candidates could compete equally, and Brady, Fattah, Nutter and Evans could raise money close to Knox, does anyone think he would be ahead.
He might - presumably he
He might - presumably he would have also still spent the same amount of money running the same commercials. The difference would probably be that the other candidates would also be on TV a lot more than they currently are, both with the generally positive ads that they've been running so far, and then there would be a lot more negative advertising on both sides.
Oh yeah: and those other four guys would be perceived as being beholden to a whole bunch of special interest donors. Knox would be running commercials about how Brady's got the whole of City Council in his pocket to make and rescind laws for his personal benefit.
But to try and pin this all on Knox's money, rather than the message he's sending with that money, indicates a gross incapacity for self-reflection and misunderstanding of voters' concerns on the part of some of those career politicians.
I respectfully disagree...
Whatever efforts were made or not, Kenney was right on.
Do I agree that Knox's strategy of anti City Hall has worked SO FAR? Yes, I do.
Do I think it would have worked if the other candidates did not have their fund raising hands tied? NO WAY! He was @ 1%... but had a virtual monopoly on television for too long.
Nobody would have been more susceptible to attack adds... Just look at his history...
I am a true believer in reform, I am. But so many of you just wouldn't listen to Kenney, and frankly, the entire city may pay for this mistake. What I found to be whiney was all of the people who said that removing these reforms was a disaster... Those that wouldn't face the fact that removing these reforms was the lesser of the two evils. Keeping them was a disaster. That is why I have to follow Knox around the city each day... because I am afraid of him becoming mayor. I'd take anybody over Knox...
I say remove the "reforms" tomorrow, and pass a more studied and comprehensive bill after the election. One that is truly balanced. Sure many of us (including me) may not get exactly what we want. But is that not better than Tom Knox running this city for four years????
I want an apple, and I hate pears. I'd take a banana over the pear, because I find them more appetizing. That is my take on the election right now... Anything but the pear (Knox).
How about this?
City council should have created a millionaires exception in the original bill. Better yet, they should have enacted public financing and given candidates with less money a real shot.
I think it's kind of amusing that some people are now trying to blame all of this on people who opposed the change. We didn't write the legislation.
---
Check out my blog!
I am currently working for Marc Stier and Ellen Green-Ceisler.
Wilson Goode
did introduce and pass a millionaire's exemption. We all thought it would be enough. Probably not enough, however.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
Satullo raises a good point with regard to
unintended consequences. And I have seen some good suggestions on here about adjustments that could make it easier for non-millionaires to compete when a millionaire jumps in. But the comment about silence being deafening raises an interesting issue. Had ward and party leaders been out front on the pay-to-play issue, had they condemned the corruption of Ron White, Corey Kemp, Lenny Ross, Rick Mariano etc. etc. etc., had they taken the lead on pushing measures to clean up city government, make it more transparent, condemn the crhonic self-dealing, would the voters be so easily persuaded by TV ads from this "outsider" and his clean-government message? Has a single party activist or ward leader ever voiced a single word about the 20 or so who've been convicted so far or about the alleged misdoings of the Citizens Alliance crowd, other than to cluck cluck about the politics of the US Attorney? The silence was indeed deafening. At some point voters get sick of corruption and those who protect it.
Exactly.
How much money did they spend marketing New Coke? And how fast did it tank?
You can't sell something people aren't buying.
Press secretary, Knox campaign. Blogger on hiatus, former award-winning journalist.
Ward leaders and corruption
Those indicted were outside the ward structure and part of the system that seeks to circumvent the ward structure. Mariano was the only one mentioned that had any relationship withy the ward structure. I never met any of the above named defendants. These were part of the money structure, not the ward structure. Perhaps your points should be directed at big law firms, zoning consultants, financial firms and big money fund raisers and other wealthy corporate citizens of this town. Money trumps everything, including the ward structure.
Now I get it.
So when people wanted to, say, fix a ticket, get a no-show job or get aggravated assault charges dropped against a relative, they would normally go to the fundraisers and zoning consultants? Well then, thanks for clearing that up.
Press secretary, Knox campaign. Blogger on hiatus, former award-winning journalist.
No show job
I have never seen a no show job. If you know of one tell me so I can get it.
I used to hear stories of a world wide Jewish conspiracy that ran the world. Being Jewish I often felt cheated that I was not invited to join and partake of the riches. Now I hear about all these no show jobs and other perks of being a ward leader and other benefits from a "machine". Once again I feel cheated because I do not see these perks either. There are very few patronage jobs and those there are are performed very well (see Register of Wills). No show jobs are much like the Amway millionaire, more myth than reality tat is being used as a red herring to mislead people.
Finally, you should back up your allegations of assaults being dropped or no show jobs with facts. Perhaps charges were dropped on the merits.
Milton Street
I don't recall all the details and know that the money was from a private contractor for "consulting," but did Milton Street earn the money he got for consulting or whatever at the airport?
According to the indictment (still unproven), didn't Fumo have people on the public payroll that didn't do public work, but only campaign work and maid service?
These are two examples of arguably no show jobs that just pop into my mind.
----
I support Michael Nutter for Mayor.
Well, as you mentioned, the
Well, as you mentioned, the Street example wasn't government job.
The second example weren't no show, they were misappropriated funds.
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
Milton street
I don't think Milton would classify as being part of the ward structure either.
Lou is making a very important point. A lot of the misconduct is really happening at the top level. The real problem with corruption isn't in the neighborhoods. It's in the board rooms. Remember, most of the people actually indicted and convicted during the Street Administration were people employed by the private sector.
---
Check out my blog!
I am currently working for Marc Stier and Ellen Green-Ceisler.
Why do you think Milton got
Why do you think Milton got the job, exactly?
Milton Street
Milton Street got the job because some foolish contractor thought he could help him. Blame the greedy contractor.
Not good enough, Lou, and a
Not good enough, Lou, and a good example of what you and Jim are basically ignoring. The businesses might be greedy- but they are doing it because there is a perception that it is what you do in Philadelphia to get shit done.
John Street runs the show. If he came out strong against this type of thing, it would not happen. Instead, he just remains silent. And, if you don't think that pisses people off, I would point you to his 22 percent approval rating, and that unqualified, dishonest guy as #1 in the polls.
Milton is the brother of the
Milton is the brother of the mayor. Do you think the ward leaders got together and decided that he should get some graft?
Just to be clear, I am not saying that the ward structure is free of corruption. Philadelphia's entire political culture is wracked with unethical behavior. However, I don't think people should overlook the involvement of the private sector in all of this. A lot of people, like the Chamber of Commerce, want to pretend that the business community is watching horrified. They are participating in it as much as the politicians.
---
Check out my blog!
I am currently working for Marc Stier and Ellen Green-Ceisler.
When the Chamber of Commerce
When the Chamber of Commerce is horrified enough by the process that they support public funding of elections, you know something is really screwed up.
Talk to some small businesses or any non-connected developers in Germantown, and ask them how they think the system works.
I think you are missing my
I think you are missing my point.
I am not saying that every business owner is corrupt or anything like that. The vast majority of people, in both government and the private sector, are honest people who are playing by the rules. They are the ones getting screwed by all the corruption. I am simply pointing out that the majority of the people arrested as a result of investigations of the Street Administration were businessmen, not city employees or elected officials. This seems to get lost in the discussion. There is a problem with corruption in Philadelphia, but it goes beyond ward leaders, elected officials, and other political groupings.
---
Check out my blog!
I am currently working for Marc Stier and Ellen Green-Ceisler.
And
And get a pothole fixed and stop sign and ride to the polls and a polling place staffed and voice at the zoning board and their gas turned back on and a contractor from flooding their basement and a fence put up at the little league field and a hospital kept open and a firehouse from being closed and a kid a summer job and the lights turned on in a playground so kids can play at night and soccer fields mowed and fundraisers attended for every event in their neighborhood and a thousand other things that ward leaders do for their neighborhoods. All things that I and other ward leaders do. If I don't staff polling places then nobody gets to vote.
I'll match my commitment to my neighborhood, its citizens and the people of Philadelphia against your candidate and you any day.
Good.
I hope all those who agree with Clout, are still happy January 2010, when we have all gone through two years of the Knox insanity, if it happens. Hey, Clout, where is your responsibility to do the same investigative coverage that other publications have done on other elected officials. When will you expose the entrenched political interests that have been alluded to as supporters of Knox?
Or, does that not fit your view of the future. You, as a "journalist", should not be even be involved in this discussion. I always thought you should be an observer not a referee that wants to be a factor in the outcome of the game.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
Jim: I hope you see today's Daily News
and the package of stories on Knox that I edited. These are just the latest critical looks at Knox and his background by Dave Davies, who has led the pack on this issue since January. An archive of all of these stories can be found at thenextmayor.com. You may also recall, I also on the myth of Knox as outsider a couple weeks ago: http://www.philly.com/dailynews/columnists/clout/20070406_Gar_Joseph___C...
I agree with you on the observer issue. And an observer makes observations. The point of my observation above is that Knox has been able to hijack the corruption issue, and it is working for him, because the political establishment, with a couple exceptions, failed to speak out. This is an issue that could have been co-opted and denied to him.
You may well,
but, do you actually live in the city? If you do. I, in advance, apologize. But, so many of those in "journalism" here in Philadelphia, do not really share the exact same commitment to our city as those who actually place our heads on the pillow each night.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
Good point Jim
When I went to the Satullo tour, "The Next Great City" I always wondered why there were so many suburbanites. The first question I asked them was "Are you willing to let our kids go to your schools".
Suburbanites do not know the sacrifices we have to go through to educate our children, pay car insurance or deal with high cable rates and unweildy boxes.
They all have suggestions, as Tom Ferrick stole from me "In a bacon and egg breakfast, the chicken is invested, the hog is committed".
Tom Ferrick
lives in South Philly. You Go Tom!
And, he kicks my ass when I deserve it.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
I know
subarbanites have a stake and interest in Philadelphia. We need them, their elected officials and their love for our city and region to move all of us forward.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
To keep it in perspective,
To keep it in perspective, the finance laws are working.
Recall Fattah was caught breaking them and allegedly the Ethics Board is investigating others.
The fact we have proof current candidates can not play by the rules makes me even happier that Councilman Kenney decided to withdraw the bill.
In the grand scheme of things, I would think most people would prefer a clean election with a winner they don't agree with than a dirty election with the guy you do want to win.
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
I am torn in this debate b/c
I am torn in this debate b/c I really do feel like the other mayoral candidates should "man-up" and run on the issues Philadelphians care about: (1) a change of the way the City has been run and (2) Fixing crime. It's not that they are not running on those issues (Nutter's "I hate Street ads" are not an affirmation of the status quo). But Knox has found those issues and has tapped into them.
I believe that if Brady/Fattah/Nutter ran hard on those issues, particularly crime, they would get more traction. No wishy washy stuff, I mean hard on crime enough that the ACLU starts to send mailers against your candidacy. Crime is really that serious.
Also, the other candidates should have worked harder to narrow the field, if they were concerned about Knox or a Knox type candidacy. Four other candidates are splitting up the vote. There is a core of 20% of voters that polls are showing as wanting a change as their top priority. There is a very strong feeling that the City is doing in the wrong direction, and Knox has tapped into that, and with the field split b/w five candidates 25%> will win.
To me, this seems a lot like what a lot of us said about Mary Weinberg. (A lot of those supporters support Brady, as an aside.) Many could not figure out why anyone would support Weinberg. He had no recent track record of living in the City. (Rizzo's mayoralty was a long time ago.) It was not clear that he lived in the City when he filed, etc. He did not have the charisma that the other candidates have (save Happy Fernandez.) But, there was a strong dislike of John Street that found a home in Weinberg. Knox seems to attract the same voters.
I will say that Marty is a very nice guy and a lot of folks in the legal community liked him, but were shocked by his running for Mayor, given that he had not voiced those views previously.
The issue that I have with Knox's candidacy is that there are really four extremely qualified candidates for office. All of whom have long records of service. It really is a very impressive field. All of them have major initiatives and accomplishments and have really spent their lives working to improve the City. All are very well respected and have strong support in their community. And Nutter/Evans/Fattah are policy wonks and Brady has the leadership and compassion that really make this one of the best fields for Mayor. That's what we say we want in candidates to run.
But Knox's money is allowing him almost free access to the airwaves in a way that the other candidates cannot have because of the limits. (Remember Street and Weinberg had to go ask for the money -- even if it was $100K chunks.) The impact of not asking for the money means that he is really not beholden to the existing power structure. But he is also not responsible to most of the stakeholders in the City as well.
TV wins. No doubt about that. (Look at Corzine's initial primary race. Bloomberg over Mark Green in NYC.) My issue is not so much that Knox can spend money, but that the other candidates cannot raise enough money to promote a critical analysis of his candidacy. Which suggests that money can buy the election, which is what the goo-goos wanted to avoid. (They suck for another reason which was alluded to earlier -- they don't actually have to get stop signs fixed, potholes filled, trash picked up, etc.)
That's the conundrum this time.
__________________________________________________________________________
I do not work for/support any candidate for any office in Philadelphia.
Where is Adam B when I need him?
truthtold-
since you started coming on the site you have been one been posting some of the most well informed, well thought out, posts that obviously are the result of an extremely smart person who has been around city politics for a long time. But (you had to know that was coming) you couldn't be more wrong when you state:
It is convenient that you took the two rich candidates that won using their own money over the past few years and left off all of the other candidates who lost doing the same (I believe the ratio is 10-1 losers to winners, or something of that magnitude). If you want to say things like "no doubt about that" then please back it up with some facts, because from where I sit the correlation between spending one's own money on TV ads and winning is a negative one, if there is any correlation at all.
As for your two examples, they both have serious flaws. With Bloomberg vs. Green (an election I voted in) you had a Dem who was severely wounded from a nasty primary battle (where Green ended up being portrayed as a racist), as well as a guy who just couldn't seem to get along with anyone or keep his foot out of his mouth. There was also the widely held view that Bloomberg was really a Dem (a view I still hold) who had switched party affiliation because the broken NYC Dem machine had shut him out of an earlier primary (a view that lead to Bloomberg's overwhelming win over Green's former primary challenger- a win that would have been delivered to Bloomberg if only registered Dems had voted!). For Corzine you had a Dem running in one of the "bluest" states at a time when the national Republican Party couldn't have been more unpopular (Iraq, tax cuts for the wealthy, etc., etc.). Look across the nation in last year's elections and you'll see a very large number of Dems who ran underfunded campaigns who managed to win (Atmire and Carney in PA are two that come to mind, though Carney did get large infusions of cash in the final month or two, if I recall correctly). Why did those Dems win? Obviously not big TV ad buys, so then why? Here's a hint.
But if you look at the multiple other candidates who ran using their own fortunes in 2000-2006, you will find vastly more who got trounced than who won. So what does that say about your theory that "TV wins"?
Let me just say this: TV may "win", but the question is, what part of TV "wins"? Is it ads? Is it the news? Consider the size of the ad buy for the most effective ad in the 2004 election, the infamous Swift-Boat Vets for Truth ads. Were those large ad buys? No, they weren't. So why then did they have such a large effect? Because the news picked up the story and it was continually talked about on TV, radio, and in newspapers and people's homes.
I work for Damon K. Roberts in his run for City Council. Unless otherwise stated this and every comment by myself is the opinion of myself, and not of Damon or any other candidate, organization, committee, etc.
to be clear...
My argument is not that TV doesn't rule public opinion, but rather to point out that not all TV is created equal.
I work for Damon K. Roberts in his run for City Council. Unless otherwise stated this and every comment by myself is the opinion of myself, and not of Damon or any other candidate, organization, committee, etc.
Correct, because the message
Correct, because the message is important.
Knox spending $5 million saying he likes kittens and eats asparagus wouldn't have him move to the forefront.
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
Fine: honest conversation time on Knox
I know there are too many spinners on this blog to have an honest conversation, but come on...what exactly is Knox's message?
That pay-to-play culture is preventing the city from having the funds needed to fund more police on the streets and provide health center services?
Does anyone here really believe that?
Pay-to-play happened under the Rendell Administration--at a higher rate than Street--and Broad Street still became the Avenue of the Arts. The pools reopened. Bankruptcy was avoided (and that can be credited to Micahel Masch more than anyone else).
Come on. This city loved Rendell. Friggin' WaWa named a hoagie after the guy.
If people who proclaim themselves the experts (or at least armchair quarterbacks) on politics allow Knox's basic message to go go unchallenged than no wonder voters are swayed by his ads.
There are three things going on in Philadelphia:
1- An economy that is not sustainable and in need of change--some say tax cuts are the priority and others say that workforce development and education will solve the problem.
2- Violence is out of control--mostly person to person violence--far more assaults areoccurring between people who know each other than those who don't. Why? Because of way too many illegal guns and an ineffective legal/rehabilitative system + the lack of opportunity that results from the lack of jobs available because of the problems listed in point #1.
3- People are pissed off by corruption because it's unfair and wrong. However, removing corruption and pay-to-play will not solve problem #1 and #2.
Why are we allowing Tom Knox to reshape the terms of the debate to only focus on #3 when we all know the real solutions start with #1 and #2?
I do not believe it is
I do not believe it is pay-to-play that is doing it, but an inefficient government that pay-to-play is just a part of.
But, I think to some extent, the story of this election--and the next, will be crime. And, with 20, likely bloody days to go, his message will get lost.
Ray, I think this is the
Ray, I think this is the issue:
That 20%+ polling for him are not YPPers. They are the average voter. If it was only YPPers, it would be a race between Nutter and Fattah. I doubt we need to directly poll members here to know that.
As for:
At least for me, I do. I do it for all the candidates that I can justify. The difference between me and a lot of others is that I don't keep harping on the same thing over and over. As you know, I have said critical things about Fattah and some of his policy. I say my piece in the conversation and then I let it rest after the conversation ends, unless necessary to bring up again.
For Knox it is the same way. I am not going to be a gman and wear out my ctrl+v. It gets tiring and I much prefer the finesse of debate and getting my point across, not the sledgehammer approach.
Ultimately, it is up to the candidates and their staff and supporters to go after the other candidates. As example, Phillymag endorsed Nutter and they put out an article seemingly rather critical of Knox. Inquirer and subsidiaries are starting to get critical of Knox as well (I am going to guess Inky will endorse Nutter).
It isn't my job to lead a crusade against Knox, especially since I do not view him as the devil incarnate.
Actually, it is possible you could be wrong about this. Again, this is a leap of faith, but people do wonder about the significant crime going on in correlation with how Shamus din ali investigations lead to City Hall and then recently you have the Police Commissioner basically inviting the guy to a bar-b-q. You don't think stuff like that makes people think pay-to-play and corruption leads to some of our violence? Add in the fact some of our mayoral candidates served on boards with the guy and it isn't too huge of a leap for the average person.
Finally, as far as Rendell, we know people are willing to overlook things if they at least see things getting better. As I understand it, Philly was down for so long that the the people didn't care as long as things were fixed and got better. Now that we have a baseline, I think people realize to take the next step, a lot of the old practices need to be expunged. It comes down to results. Ultimately, people do not think Street gave results and he is bringing the rest of City Hall along with him.
Finally #2, it sounds like Evans and Brady are trying to take control of the direction of topics. Knox talks about the bad people in government and now Brady and Evans are talking about the bad people not in the government. Fattah and Nutter seem to be on their own course right now, even though Knox is starting to go after Fattah (as is Evans).
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
at work, dude.
And busy studying the Senate records of Ned Lamont, Dick Tarrant, Pete Ricketts, Jim Pederson, Josh Rales, Katherine Harris, John Raese and Mike McGavick, Blair Hull, Doug Forrester and Jack Ryan, all of whom spent many millions on their own Senate races over the past two years and lost.
How's Sen. Michael Huffington doing? He spent $28 million to defeat Dianne Feinstein -- except for the "defeating" part.
Dude...
You're quicker to respond than Batman when they shine that big spotlight into the Gotham skies! Someone get me a "B" spotlight!
I work for Damon K. Roberts in his run for City Council. Unless otherwise stated this and every comment by myself is the opinion of myself, and not of Damon or any other candidate, organization, committee, etc.
I kind of agree with you
I kind of agree with you that if you suck as a candidate and have poor message that TV will not allow you win all by itself. Steve Forbes is a better example for an example about having money. And Bloomberg/Green was complicated by 9/11 and the fact that a lot of voters did not like Mark Green.
You add the African American and Puerto Rican communities ambivalence to Green and that did him in.
But my example about Corzine was in the Primary not the General. That's really where he crushed.
But what does TV win is a good question, I'd like to think about before I shoot off a response. I think that ubiquitous on TV gets you a belief that you are going to win.
__________________________________________________________________________
I do not work for/support any candidate for any office in Philadelphia.
So Jim, you are arguing
that corruption in city government, in this post-bug post-Corey Kemp year, has nothing to do with the popularity of Tom Knox and his "Take the For Sale Sign" off City Hall?
You're arguing that Knox's popularity is due to a failure of journalists like Gar to do their jobs and attack Knox more?
That's what you're saying?
Meanwhile, Lou says there are no no-show jobs and alludes to someone's saying he is not committed to his neighborhood.
May I respectfully suggest that if all machine councilpeople were Jim Kenneys and all machine ward leaders and committeepeople were Lou Agres, you wouldn't be dealing with Tom Knox.
Proudly supporting the BEAUTIFUL Philly For Change Council Slate and MICHAEL NUTTER for Mayor
Give me
the list of "no show" jobs, because after 15 years in elective office, I have no clue what any of those who claim this, including the Knox Infomercials, are claiming.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
I think people are starting
I think people are starting to see the image people in the City have of it. Whether there are not any no-show jobs and other such things, a lot of people believe there are.
Knox is working on what people believe, whether it is true or not.
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
It's
not true.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
But it is what people
But it is what people believe.
It is the image the City has, unfortunately.
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
No show jobs
Oh for crying out loud. This is not about the actual existence of no show jobs. It is about the expereience of damn near anyone who has ever tried to use the accepted channels to get anything done in the city, and had the experience of seeing what their THOUSANDS of tax dollars are getting them. Personal examples off the top of my head:
--trying to reach the medical director of health center 3 on the phone to discuss a case: impossible.
--trying to get a marriage license: Hours of waiting.
--trying to get a "slow, children" sign for my street: No can do, call Donna Reed Miller's Chief of Staff.
--trying to get a copy of the deed change that inexplicably chopped off part of my property: Months, eventually a handwritten letter that my bank laughed at.
--trying to understand what I did wrong on my taxes that necessitated a large penalty in 2004: Months.
--trying to get the house down the block with the dudes selling drugs closed up: Never.
What happens in each case? You run into an employee that is so underqualified to be doing his or her job that you give up. Or a system that has no infrastructure to serve the customer but is uniquely set up to serve the employee. Eventually you call the right person to get it done for you. M
Mr. Kenney, Mr. Agre: This is the status quo that every Philadelphian lives with, and this is the status quo that Tom Knox' ads and mailings tap into.
It has nothing to do with whether there are actially "no show jobs."
While you try to convince us and the world at large that the status quo is "broken but works" (Agre's post above is a classic example), and that Knox will win due only to his money, those of us living in the real world know EXACTLY what he is talking about and railing against. Brady's ads say what you say: "This system works. I know how to make it work for you." Fattah and Evans do not mention it in memorable language. Nutter comes close to tapping into this but strays off message. But Knox gets it and hammers it home (or Trippi does). "It is ABSURD how poorly the city handles the needs of its citizens. It only works if you are willing to play the game. It SHOULD be fixable. It MUST be fixed."
I agree with the post that says even with the Millionaire's exemption his ads would attract a plurality. You could show me he was a really bad guy in the past but his message talks to the experience of virtually every Philadelphian who is not "connected", and that is about 99% of us. Argue all you want about the money and the ads but he has tapped into something that we all know and feel.
He is a product of his handlers, I beleive that; but the handlers have figured it out. So maybe we will get to see what he can do about this. So be it.
Political Doc
Supporting Michael Nutter for Mayor
BINGO
I showed up at the PGW office at 9:00 AM yesterday, and would have had to wait at least 1.5 hours to get my issue taken care of. People are sick and tired of this shit.
'Nuff said.
Sorry that does not cut it for me
Those things really suck. Every mayoral candidate has pledged to change them.
However, if better services is all we want or expect from city government, then we are selling ourselves short.
It's our party, it's our tax money: I therefore want to elect a Mayor who can improve service provision and use the power and resources of city government to transform lives and communities.
Thinking Small is Thinking Big
Not picking a fight, not baiting :)
But I do believe that the way that a Mayor transforms peoples' lives is by giving them safe streets, good public schools, and excellent public services overall. Improving the quality of life in neighborhoods makes businesses and people want to stay and or relocate here. Also, the lack of effective city services transcends class and neighborhood. Give us effective City services and we've got the foundation to be the world class City that we all know we can be.
P.S. I pay a lot in taxes and my street didn't get plowed all winter.
I don't think it's either/or, Ray
but what I'm talking about is what animates people. Go to the PGW office on Chelten Ave. and take a look around. Workers being rude to PGW customers, because they're oveworked. PGW customers being rude to PGW workers, because they're treated like shit. You, yourself have written about what it's like to get anything done in this City. It is an absolute nightmare.
I agree with you about what needs to be the focus on the macro-scale. But in order to get there, we need accountability and credibility. The most immediate way to begin doing that is to focus on the ways that people interact with the "City" in concrete ways on a daily basis - at the same time as you keep your eye on the prize in terms of the big picture.
Exactly. I really can't add
Exactly. I really can't add anything to this except to say if we raise expecations in interaction, maybe we can raise the bar for everything else. You cannot improve the big picture without improving the smaller one.
That's what I said DE
I said we needed both.
I also know a lot about voters. I know that less than 50% of all Philadelphians vote in any given election. I know that figure has remained static for over 10 years. The people upset with services, are already voting, if they vote at all. But something else has to be added (not substituted)to the message if more people are going to get engaged.
I certainly hope you're right
So, the question remains what will happen if Knox were to get elected. Ok, he's basically come across as clueless to me on most occassions that I've seen him speak - but i have heard him speak to underlying issues as much as, if not more than, some of the other candidates.
Will he follow through on those issues he's discussed? Unfortunately, we may just find out. But despite his apparent history of being autocratic, I'm not yet convinced that he's Machievallian. I don't believe that he has a handle on issues, but he at least talks about the need to hire competent people to be a part of making decisions about what to do. Does anyone know anything about any of his staff other than Susan (and no, gman, I'm not talking about Youngblood).
I wonder if this goes back
I wonder if this goes back to the issue of what exactly local government should be doing.
Why a done deal DE?
DE, I just don't get it when you say stuff like this:
Elections are not monolithic machines. Elections are what happen when people come together to make a decision. Knox is not a done deal
You know I have complained ad nauseum about how little real organizing the party does in this city. So no wonder Knox's TV ads are having an impact.
Decide who you want to vote for and then go knock on doors for them or make calls or give money. That's how elections are won, and until election day, we won't know who wins.
We do know, as was pointed out in a post here today, that the polls that have Knox so far ahead are off because of oversampling of whites. This race if far from run yet and there are a lot of things YOU could be doing to change its direction.
I don't think it is a done deal, Ray
Sorry if I gave that impression. I'd like to knock on doors, but every time I think I've settled on a candidate, they say or do something that robs me of my enthusiasm. I'm not happy about that - but it is what it is.
I think there's another aspect that people are overlooking when they're explaining Knox's "support." Part of his success is the weakness of the other candidates. Brady doesn't seem to be getting traction among black voters. Fattah and Evans don't seem to be getting traction among white voters. Nutter doesn't seem to be getting traction among working class folks.
Knox and Brady cancel each other out for white votes. Fattah, Evans, and Nutter cancel each other out for black votes. Nutter siphons off much of the middle class and upper-middle class votes.
At the basic level everyone cancels everyone else out. Outside of the crossover voters, everyone more or less has the same level of support. But of all the candidates, Knox seems to be the one with the most crossover appeal. I'd guess that the percentage of the electorate that are crossover voters is just about the percentage of a lead that Knox has - if he really does have a lead. Why are those black voters going for a white candidate? Given that mostly the candidates have similar platforms, I'd have to believe that they see him, more than the other candidates, as (a) focusing on day-to-day issues that affect our lives, and (b) isn't a part of a system that has let them down in the past.
That's not true
You need to combine the Keystone poll and the Tribune poll to get a true sense of place. What you find is that Fattah is way ahead of everyone else except Knox.
The Tribune poll basically says that black voters, more than whites, do not have a problem with incumbents, and particularly like and trust Fattah and Evans (who also lead the polls among black voters, then Knox, then Nutter--you lumped Nutter in with Evans and Fattah amongst black voters and this is simply not true).
With all of the facts now coming out about Knox, I think his lead will become a lot less solid. Especially since we know his field operation is going to be pretty wet behind the ears compared to Evans, Fattah and Brady's.
That said, he can spend a lot more money than anyone else, and for all the folks who want public financing of elections, in the short term, you'd better be giving your own money up or your time if you want to see some change.
I hope you are right in
I hope you are right in thinking the polls are way off, but, I don't see it. The reason the breakdown in the last poll was like plus two percent white is because the last census had Philadelphia at plus two percent white.
Have Demographics shifted since then? Sure. Have they shifted more than a couple percent? Doubtful. In fact, the latest Census estimate has it now at 44-42, with African-Americans as the bigger group. So, you take away 2 percent of white voters, lets just say one point each from Brady and Knox. And you give one point each to the two leading African-American candidates, Fattah and Evans. Have we really done a whole lot?
I hope you are right. But, I also listened to and believed 6 months of explanations leading up to 2004 all about how the polls were undersampling Kerry. That didn't turn out so good.
read the whole post
You know this is not my field, but read the whole post. From what I understand, you can't just look at census numbers, because overwhelmingly there are more white republicans than black. So the margin between black and white Dems ends up being higher.
But, all I can say beyond that is that I am not guaranteeing that I am right, but I know that people need to start working harder to make someone other than Knox win.
I'm going to put this into
I'm going to put this into the terms of what I consider to be the average voter--not what I think:
Do the majority of voting Philadelphians want safe streets, smooth services and snow plowing, or do they want city government to use its few resources to ambitiously transform lives and communities.
I think that to the average voter, in this town with its neighborhood jealousies and fief issues the latter is seen as taking away from everyone "me and my family" for what is deemed to be "other people."
Ultimately, on May 16 we will know the answer.
City ineptitude
No one is arguing with City ineptitude. It is a problem that must be solved. One way it could be solved is by having human beings answer the phone at City departments.
What I do not see is how this is the Democratic Party's fault. If you look at the best run Department in the City it is the Register of Wills, which is one of the only patronage jobs in the city.
Perhaps you, like Knox, want to see the City run like a business. Which business, Enron, Haliburton, Wordcom?
Believe it or not the Party does not sit and plot ways to make it harder to work and live in the City.
The Democratic Party's fault?
I'm not sure I'd go quite that far. Delivering these services are a difficult thing to accomplish. I've never seen anything as bad as the DMV in Boston.
But the fact remains that the City we have today was built under the current Democratic Party's watch. Ok, that Party's built out of a lot of good people, it is multi-ethnic and supportive of union labor - I'm not going to blame City workers at the individual level - even if they take advantage of a situation presented to them on a platter. The fault is with the leadership. If the current leadership recognizes the problems with their past performance, then there's the chance that they might improve. If they're trying to tell us that the 500 lb. elephant in the room is a figment of our imagination, then they will not be able to beat a Tom Knox.
As much as you want to deflect blame for where we are, Lou, it won't fly. The Party system has not demanded accountability, it hasn't demanded transparency, it hasn't demanded results. If Party leaders haven't gotten the job done, it is the Party's reponsibility to kick them out - even if ward leaders listened to and helped individuals with individual problems. Yes, we should be able to get a stop sign erected by talking to our ward leader and walk into the PGW and not have to wait 1.5 hours to have someone tell us we need to go wait in the next line. If the Party system was working, then it would have been policing itself - informing citizens of the incumbants who need to be removed from office because they didn't carry out their responsibilities.
You should be jumping up and down and expressing outrage about Fumo instead of telling us he is innocent until proven guilty. You should be outraged that someone as powerful as he had the audacity to stain your good work - even if he isn't precisely guilty as charged, he clearly didn't take his responsibility to be above reproach seriously enough.
Here is the problem with
Here is the problem with what you guys are saying. How many of the workers that you guys are dealing with got their jobs because they knew Ward leaders and party officials? I would say slim to none. Most of those jobs are civil service jobs, so there is nothing that the party leaders can do about it.
People may or may not have legitimate beef with Ward leaders and the “machine”, but we have to keep things in perspective. If PGW did its job, it would make Lou’s job a lot either.
PGW is run by the City of
PGW is run by the City of Philadelphia. Who exactly would you like to blame when it doesn't do its job? Comcast? Bush?
It is the way it is because Rizzo, the Democratic Mayor, made it into a patronage farm.
I was under the impression
I was under the impression that you had to take a civil service test to work there. I know you do at the water department.
Oh, and as far as the tax people who answer the phone about taxes. Can we like, I don't know, hire more people during tax season? And can I get a letter about some screw up on my taxes, I don't know, before 6 months have past, and can my check clear and that time too? I think I waited once for like 9 months for a check to clear to the city.
Those of you who don't ever have to pay the BPT should thanked God every day for the fact. Believe you me.
Sense of scale
Let's see in the past two months I have called:
Cingular
Real Player's support hotline
Verizon
Aetna
I have also shopped at CVS when the computers went down and I waited in a really long line at Shop Rite
Guess what happened? I was put on hold, treated rudely, and did not always get the service I required.
What's my point? Inefficient services are not limited to those provided by the City of Philadelphia.
Corruption in publicly funded offices suck. But corruption and pay-to-play doesn't always explain the fact that a) bureaucratic systems suck and that b) not everyone is terribly good at their job. PGW, for instance, does not JUST suck because it's a patronage farm
Meanwhile, about 1 in 30 working-age people you see, works for the City of Philadelphia--even more if you include the School District.
We should elect a mayor--and council (not sure why they keep getting off the hook in all these conversations) who makes city services run better, but there has to be some sense of scale. A
nd people who are leaders or are trying to be leaders need to confront the message of a Tom Knox who basically says 'I'll fix it all." He can not fix all of the problems with city services on his own and even if he could there are much larger, systemic problems in need of attention.
Voters who don't get that--because they are basically turned off our disgusted by politics--need to be engaged by people who have an interest in increasing optimism and hope.
Eh, but for private sector,
Eh, but for private sector, you can walk with your money. Remember, city services are a monopoly aspect. Public outcry is what keeps service levels legitimate, not profit line.
The captive audience aspect is what is bothersome.
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
PGW
If someone would buy PGW the City would sell it tomorrow. Find a buyer.
Too easy. Why is PGW
Too easy. Why is PGW so down, to the point where we need to find a buyer?
Off the top of my head- because we cannot sell gas to the suburbs, and... because the City mismanaged it. Don't you think the party should take some responsibility for that kind of thing?
I give up its all my fault
Yes. Yes. Yes. I will take all the responsibility for every ill in Philadelphia. I am responsible. Phillies 10,000 losses, my fault. No Eagles Superbowl, me too. Tom Knox, my fault. PGW, the schools, the CCP strike, the parking in Manayunk, all me. Not only is it my fault, it is all part of a huge conspiracy that we arranged at midnight in Fairmount Park. Feed me your sins and cast me out of the city walls, for it is me who is at fault. Now do you feel better.
Uh huh. Again, Lou, who
Uh huh.
Again, Lou, who would you say the average Philadelphian should look to for answers on why so many of our services seem crappy?
Me
Me, I said it, it's me.
In other words, maybe you
In other words, maybe you don't want to hold anyone accountable? Again, that sentiment, along with a lot of cash, is why that doofus is real threat.
And that is sort of the
And that is sort of the point. Lou is absolving himself, yet he is campaign manager for someone that many view as a representative of the problems in the party.
--------------------------------------------------
Staff member of Longacre for 5th Council District.
Longacre Website
I'm not blaming ward leaders for PGW
directly. I'm blaming ward leaders for being part of a system that perpetuates bad leaderhip. I'm blaming ward leaders for supporting Council members that haven't gotten the job done. I'm blaming Party leaders who aren't being accountable. Ward leader should have their fingers to the pulse of the City. The should be educating the public about how our problems could be solved, and getting support for alternatives. They should be seeking out and advocating for alternative leadership. Instead, they perpetuation the system and say it's not their fault, protect incumbents, and go further to say, basically, that the system is working.
It. Isn't. Working.
I actually do think that a
I actually do think that a lot of Ward Leaders are doing their best with what they have. A lot of them get into it for the right reasons and do their best within the system to get things done. Some of them are good friends of mine, as you know.
The reason why incumbents are protected is because when you support someone, you gain political capital. So the next time you need your street light fixed, you can call their office and get an answer. There is no use to bucking the system just to buck the system. I don’t like the fact the Lou is supporting Carol Campbell as much as the next guy. He has his reasons, whatever they may be, why he does. But I know one thing. She will win whether he supports her or not, and if he calls her with a problem, she will answer the phone. If he tries to “buck the system”, she will not answer his calls. There is a lot to be said for that.
I think that we progressives are always trying to fight the good fight but lose the context of what we are fighting for. It’s like we want to always yell, “Remember the Alamo.” A little history lesson, they all died!
I’m not as pissed at Ward Leaders for not bucking the system as I am with progressives who don’t try and work within the system more. Then, maybe we would have more Ward Leaders that could actually afford to buck the system.
That's a very cogent argument, Charlesdog
But when you have a system where everyone seemingly gets farther by not bucking the system then you have what amounts to complacency.
Carol Campbell, for example, would not win if the Party structure adamantly said that no one who has twice been convicted of campaign finance violations deserves a seat on City Council - no matter how many street lights she got fixed because she knew who to call, and because she passed out her number. At some point, the system needs to police itself, and the members of the system need to accept responsibility for doing the policing.
.
"Progressives" aren't a significantly large enough constituency to bring significant enough pressure to create change unless people inside the system accept that change needs to take place. The change will need to come from within. Ward leaders, committeepeople, Council Members, Party leaders, need to hold the system accountable. Nutter took responsibility for certain issue and got things accomplished on a scale bigger than fixing light bulbs.
The change will need to come
The change will need to come from within. Ward leaders, committee people, Council Members, Party leaders, need to hold the system accountable
That is my whole point. The change will come from within. Given that fact, we have two choices, as people who want change. a) We can bitch about lack of leadership in the Ward system and the party on a blog until we are blue in the face, or b) we can actually get involved in the Ward system by becoming a committeeperson and/or getting to know our Ward Leaders and Committee people and trying to give the good ones some help.
Which choice do you think is more prudent?
I agree with your argument, but not your conclusion
There is a third option which is that people work outside of the party structure in various ways. This has already been done by a number of organizations over the years to much success. I don't think putting young activists into a well controlled and grafted machine makes a whole lot of sense.
However, Charles, where you and I agree is that people have to get up off their asses and work. I don't think people who blog are necessarily being unhelpful--Dan for instance has done a lot more with this blog than he could by phone banking or canvassing (trust me I have seen him in action) but largely you are right: a lot of people like to talk about doing things and a few people do them.
Sorry, but you are setting
Sorry, but you are setting up a false dichotomy, as Ray points out.
In any case, Chuck, lets go to the 8th District- where, you have a ward leader you like-
egomaniacGreg Paulmier. Greg has run against Donna twice, right? He is now running against her a third time. Recently, when he was booted from the ballot, there was a news story that every single ward leader in the 8th, including him, was going to support Donna. That couldnt be true, right? The guy who campaigns saying we need change, supporting the incumbent?When the point of the system is to protect the system, the answer is not just to get involved. The answer is to change the system. Those that resist might complain about us damn people who want good government- but their resistance is reason 1A in why Tom Knox might become our mayor.
False facts
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument. Not every Ward leader supported Miller. the majority did, but not all.
No, seriously, maybe that is
No, seriously, maybe that is false? It would make me much happier. Anyway, it was in the Daily News article about challengers, and seemed pretty surprising to me.
You can be happy
It is true. The vote was not unanimous. I believe two wards did not vote for Donna, and one has since changed their support. (caveat all hearsay)
I resent you calling Greg an
I resent you calling Greg an egomaniac because he happens to be running for the same office as your father is. Greg thinks he has a better chance to win than Irv. Irv thinks that he has a better chance to win than Greg. On May 15th, one of them will be wrong, I assure you. And I will still love and respect BOTH of them because of what they have both meant to me in my life and what they both have done for this community and will continue to do for this community.
I have not talked to a single Ward Leader or Committee person who thought that Irv has a shot to win, with or without Greg in the race. I’m not saying that I agree with that sentiment, but I’m just telling you that that is what the climate is. Most of them just don’t know Irv. Why would any Ward Leader sacrifice their ties within the party in order to put their neck out for someone who they don’t know and who they think has no shot at winning just because a few bloggers want to feel happy go lucky about Ward Leaders?
Did you ever publicly praise Greg for being the ONLY Ward Leader in the 8th District to support Seth Williams? Even David Cohen supported Lynn. He also supported Donna, twice, in order to save his own neck. Are you prepared to tell me that David Cohen was not for change or that he is an egomaniac because he supported the status quo?
The Ward System, like any system with a lot of people is complicated. Bucking such a system just to say that you are for change is just plain old stupid. Doing so would mean sacrificing the ability to secure funds to fix an old rec center, or plant some trees, or give kids jobs in the summer, or clear abandoned lots, or do all sorts of things that guys like Greg have taken it upon themselves to do. So some kid doesn’t get a job this summer, so he has nothing to do because the rec center sucks, and he winds up getting into trouble with the law, but that’s OK, because at least we all can fall asleep at night knowing that Greg is for change, as if his actions during his entire life have not already proven that.
The reason that more Ward Leaders and Committee people have not bucked the system as much as you may like is because they need help. If more people like you and some of the bloggers on here got involved and helped bring about a change, then I would say that you had a point. But bitching about change while at the same time leaving the people who are trying their best to bring about change from the inside out to dry is just plain old retarded. There are a lot of people on the inside who want to change things but can’t because people like us spend more time bitching than helping. If Irv wanted the support of the Ward System, then he should have supported them a long time ago. Becoming a Committeeperson and then immediately running for office just doesn’t sit well with people.
You and Irv have been my friends since as long as I can remember. If anyone ever attacked your integrity, either publicly or privately, I would be one of the first ones to defend you. Well, Greg is my friend too, and I must defend him as well, because jabbing at him the way you have been doing is just out of line.
Ah, Chuck, I was going to
Ah, Chuck, I was going to let it go at that. But, tomorrow, for your reading pleasure, I will detail Greg, and his experiences in Southwest Germantown. Like, for example, when he tried to scuttle Manheim Gardens being fixed so he would have a campaign issue against Donna Miller. You might not remember it, but, as someone who was feeling the brunt of that crumbling place, I sure do. (Actually, he even tried to get Dave Cohen involved, too. Cohen came to a meeting with him, saw exactly what was happening, and quickly distanced himself.)
And, you are supporting a guy who has specifically used this blog to try and score political points. You remember, right? Greg, whispering into people's ears about what I was saying on YPP as a way to go after my dad? (And then, the genius, still coming to our party.) You do those things, you don't get treated with respect here. So, sorry, Greg Paulmier is, and will always be, persona non grata around these parts. Deal with it.
I am not going to attack his integrity- I am going to just tell the truth.
If you are going to talk
If you are going to talk about it, then talk about the facts. Manheim Gardens is in Greg’s Ward. Irv, who has worked with Greg in the past, did not even bother to call Greg about an issue in the Ward. David Cohen told Irv that he was wrong to do so.
Greg was looking for a private entity to buy it and turn it around, and he found some people who were interested. His whole point was that we shouldn’t waste public dollars to do something that private businesses want to do.
That’s what happened.
You want the goddamned
You want the goddamned perfect example of why this City is so screwed up: My neighborhood was dying. Dying. One person organized the tenants, worked with the City, worked with Councilperson, and got it turned around. And, to make sure it got done, didn't care about who got the credit. The project is now good, stable housing.
Greg didn't get a phone call, and was going to run against Donna, so he tried to torch it. Like I said, egomaniac.
After the election, no
After the election, no matter what happens, you'll be my freind, and I'll buy you a beer. But for now, I do not wish to get in a flame war over he said she said bullshit. Write whatever you want to write.
Understand that friends come and go, but with a precious few you should hold on. Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and lifestyle, because the older you get, the more you need the people who knew you when you were young. ~ Mary Schmich
And I will continue to have
And I will continue to have zero respect for someone who goes after me with little whispers, to try and help himself out(and in effect, goes after the fact that at YPP we use our names, and stand up for what we write).
Charlesdog - if you're still reading YPP
after all of that.
Look, I can't reject your logic outright, and I'm not sure that there is a "right" or a "wrong" here, but when I read your post above I felt that you have described a system that simply cannot change. The only way for change to take place will be for the people in the system to stop apologizing for the status quo, and for people outside the system to refuse to accept the status quo (and also to stop apologizing for it). I'm not saying that there aren't some good people involved. But the cause and effect loop you described precludes any progress.
No one will buck the system because then they won't have any power in the system.
Yeah, if more people got involved then it would be easier for those in the system who are advocating for change to be successful, but (1) that just ain't going to happen (certainly not when people are absolutely convinced that the system isn't there to represent them), and (2) the system actively chews up and spits out people who don't go along with the system anyway.
So, I disagree that complaining is a useless activity. Simply complaining is not as effective as complaining and being active, but there needs to be a critical mass of discontent to force the hand people involved. People's voices being heard have had a dramatic effect recently. The ward system didn't do shit about the casinos, even in the wards where they are particularly unpopular. The combination of "complainers" and activists actually caused the City Council to get their asses in gear. That's pretty amazing. Agree with the outcomes or not, it sure seems that people complaining caused Kenney to withdraw his proposed legislation (that is my assumption because he still feels that altering the campaign finance laws was the right thing to do). Amazing.
People in the system need to stop being complacent and it needs to become clear that they can't take partisan, personality-based support for granted. The current system is build on partisan, personality-based support. People in the system need to realize that if they aren't supporting people who are "reformers" they will be backing losers. It needs to become clear that people who aren't productive will be turned out.
The system dynamic needs to be altered. It will only happen when those who hold the reins of power realize they have no alternative.
I think that you and I just
I think that you and I just have a fundamental difference on our slant. I understand why people think that they can’t change things from the inside. It’s hard and takes excruciatingly long. I’ve just seen some of the good things that people can do by working within the system. Heck, it took Greg 12 years to become the Ward Leader, but he did so because he was committed to change.
I think I hear a lot of people attacking the Ward System wholesale, while at the same time having no understanding of it. My whole point is that getting involved has been a good thing in my life, and I encourage people to do the same. The WORST thing that could happen is that you meet some of your neighbors, you get fed up, and you quit.
I don’t make excuses for the faults of the Ward system and some